PL-5EII for the MiG-21? Maybe??

[MobiSev]

pretty please? We already have the PLAAF livery ;)

Edited December 19, 2019 by MobiSev

[Hiromachi]

Is there any recorded instance of equipping or useing those by a MiG-21bis? Or at least MiG-21SMT/MF/M?

[J-20]

Is there any recorded instance of equipping or useing those by a MiG-21bis? Or at least MiG-21SMT/MF/M?

 

Yes, Chinese J-7III uses PL-5EII as well as PL-7 (magic 550 with an Chinese all aspect seeker)

Many exported J-7 can also carry Magic 550-II and various AIM-9 (mainly L,M and P variant)

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by J-20

[Airhunter]

If we had the PL-5E II the 21 would become pretty OP LMAO.

[J-20]

If we had the PL-5E II the 21 would become pretty OP LMAO.

 

How does that make MiG-21 OP?

MiG-21 was used against fighters like F-4E with sparrows, on top of that, MiG-21 has no look down shoot down capability with a RWR that basically tells you nothing. Besides, PL-5EII's performance is only at about the same level as the AIM-9L/M. Right now F-5E has AIM-9M, and we didn't hear anybody saying F-5E is OP.

 

Besides, OP only happens to game. Simulation focuses on realism, not fairness.

Edited December 19, 2019 by J-20

[Airhunter]

How does that make MiG-21 OP?

MiG-21 was used against fighters like F-4E with sparrows, on top of that, MiG-21 has no look down shoot down capability with a RWR that basically tells you nothing. Besides, PL-5EII's performance is only at about the same level as the AIM-9L/M. Right now F-5E has AIM-9M, and we didn't hear anybody saying F-5E is OP.

 

Besides, OP only happens to game. Simulation focuses on realism, not fairness.

 

Obviously I was joking. Sarcasm my dude. The F-5 also only has the P5, no M.

[MrDieing]

Besides, OP only happens to game. Simulation focuses on realism, not fairness.

 

 

A taste of your own medicine then. Our MiG-21Bis having the PL-5 is not realistic.

[J-20]

A taste of your own medicine then. Our MiG-21Bis having the PL-5 is not realistic.

 

 

?? What are you talking about?

[Jonne]

Yes, Chinese J-7III uses PL-5EII as well as PL-7 (magic 550 with an Chinese all aspect seeker)

Many exported J-7 can also carry Magic 550-II and various AIM-9 (mainly L,M and P variant)

 

Is a J-7III a MiG-21bis?

[WinterH]

J-7III != MiG-21MF or Bis or M or SMT

 

I'd prefer this not to be done. We already have one not realistic inclusion in Kh-66, let's not add more.

 

Besides, why not hope for an eventual J-7 for unique weapons they have instead ;)

[Hiromachi]

I will bring this to guys attention but personally I think there is a number of more realistic and viable additions like Magic I missiles which were added to Iraqi MiG-21s, Serbian L-128-4 rocket pod , Polish ZK-300 cluster bomb or SATURN reconnaissance pod. But that's of course my opinion :)

[Jonne]

If this missile was not used on a MiG-21bis, I do not see any reason to include it. There is already way to much unrealistic stuff which I rather see removed than even more added.

[AeriaGloria]

The recon pod Magic and rocket pods sound fun. Can’t find pictures of the Saturn

[Hiromachi]

That's the Saturn pod. Designed as a lighter and more viable photi reconnaissance pod. At its core it was heavily modified UB pod. I can write more about it when I get home.

[J-20]

J-7III != MiG-21MF or Bis or M or SMT

 

I'd prefer this not to be done. We already have one not realistic inclusion in Kh-66, let's not add more.

 

Besides, why not hope for an eventual J-7 for unique weapons they have instead ;)

 

 

This "eventual" can be a very long time.

[QuiGon]

J-7III != MiG-21MF or Bis or M or SMT

 

I'd prefer this not to be done. We already have one not realistic inclusion in Kh-66, let's not add more.

 

Besides, why not hope for an eventual J-7 for unique weapons they have instead ;)

If this missile was not used on a MiG-21bis, I do not see any reason to include it. There is already way to much unrealistic stuff which I rather see removed than even more added.

This! A J-7 isn't a MiG-21Bis, albeit closely related.

[Harlikwin]

J-7III != MiG-21MF or Bis or M or SMT

 

I'd prefer this not to be done. We already have one not realistic inclusion in Kh-66, let's not add more.

 

Besides, why not hope for an eventual J-7 for unique weapons they have instead ;)

 

Yeah pretty much this. Just because it "looks like" a mig-21 doesn't mean its an actual mig-21. I don't know much about the J-7III, but at a guess it probably has somewhat different avionics, maybe a different engine, and maybe enough airframe differences to make it not a Mig-21bis. Per wiki there were over 248 "changes" and revisions to the design and changes in longitudinal stability.

 

I understand people wanting extra capability, or a close relative. But at the end of the day I much prefer the specific model approach that ED and some other Dev's take.

[Hiromachi]

To be fair, while I understand the sentiment for accuracy in specific airframes, one has to really understand that MiG-21 was operated by a huge number of countries and they often did a number of things not anticipated or exactly accepted by original designers. I would argue that MiG-21 airframe is one of the most adaptable and converted out there, and proof is a Romanian Lancer or Indian Bison.

 

When I was researching Polish MFs, there was an interesting part about them lacking ability to carry R-60s, which Polish MiG-21bis could. So a program was initiated to convert MFs and provide them with ability to launch R-60 missiles.

There are even neat pictures from it, with one showing clear differences in the amount of smoke and "fire" generated behind the R-3S and R-60 missiles.

Then you have Serbia, DDR, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Finland and Poland producing indiginous reconnaissance pods, Polish cluster munitions, Iraqi Magic Is, Polish PBP-2-R-3S, etc.

Not to mention some countries like DDR upgraded in their MiGs engines.

 

However, there is a number of things that can be added, that are realistic and would not stretch the meaning of accuracy. The PL-5 missile doesnt seem to be among them.

[Harlikwin]

Was the R-73 used on the Bis?

[Hiromachi]

To be fair I dont know. I have seen Cuban 21s apparently with R-73s but I'm not an expert on Cuban aircraft.

[Harlikwin]

Reason I ask is that it seems like a reasonable mod for various warpac aircraft, or post cold war. Moreso than the PL5 at least.

[Hiromachi]

Well, if we had any information on its employment and integration into MiG-21bis aircraft, it could be possible to add that. I know that there already is a suggestion in Mantis to add that.

Also, got the picture of the R-60 vs R-3S missiles:

Descriptions says what you pretty much can see - R-60 leaves no smoke and produces little to no flash in comparison to R-3S missile.

[Buzzles]

If we're talking about what the Bis can do and what it can possibly do, can we talk about what it definitely can't?

 

There's a certain radar guided missile currently available which physically cannot work with the radar in the Bis. It'd be good to see that removed if you're going to revisit the weapons.

[J-20]

To be fair I dont know. I have seen Cuban 21s apparently with R-73s but I'm not an expert on Cuban aircraft.

 

OK, can we have R-73 added for our MiG-21bis then?

[Hiromachi]

If we're talking about what the Bis can do and what it can possibly do, can we talk about what it definitely can't?

 

There's a certain radar guided missile currently available which physically cannot work with the radar in the Bis. It'd be good to see that removed if you're going to revisit the weapons.

No need to be mean mate. Grom has been there for so long and so many users like it, that at this point removing it would do more harm than good. Nobody is forced to use it and no mission maker for multiplayer is obliged to put it, so anyone looking for 100 % accurate scenario can avoid it.

 

OK, can we have R-73 added for our MiG-21bis then?

If we can get electric schematics for that. We would need to know how it was integrated into the airframe.