Weapon Release brevity code words. Let's talk!

[S. Low]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiservice_tactical_brevity_code?wprov=sfla1

 

I think the fox 1-3 system is great. However, i'm curious as to why there's a completely different word for almost every type of bomb and a2g missile? How is this still brevity?

 

In my lowly civvie mind I think it'd be more logical to use the fox 1-3 model for all weapons:

 

Rifle 1: laser guided a2g missile

Rifle 2: thermal guided a2g missile

Rifle 3: radar guided a2g missile

 

Pickle 1: laser guided bomb

Pickle 2: dumb bomb

Pickle 3: cluster bomb

 

OR just simple say rifle for a2g missile, and pickle for bomb. I'm not sure what the need is to call out the exact a2g weapon. Perhaps someone could educate me on that.

[Harker]

I'll be talking entirely out of personal opinion here, I have no IRL experience.

 

For AG ordnance, the type of munition (bomb, missile) and method of guidance matters.

 

Imagine going up against a SAM site. If you launch a HARM, then your wingman or another flight should know that an anti-radiation missile is on its way. That way, they know that 1) the SAM is being suppressed, 2) if 2 or 3 "Magnum"s are heard, maybe they'll hold off from releasing more HARMs and 3) if they want to attack it as well, they're free to use something else, such as a JSOW or Maverick, in case the SAM turns off its radar. You can apply that logic to different scenarios.

 

Also, FOX-1,2,3 might work for A2A missiles, but there are only 3 types of them. If you apply the RIFLE-1,2,3... logic, you might end up needing more numbers, depending on the discretization used. In the heat of combat, which can complicate things. Maybe a pilot will struggle to remember what RIFLE-8 is, at that moment.

 

That's how I see it, more or less. Also, keep in mind that naming conventions are hard to change, because they're now used by the entirety of NATO countries. It'd be a long process and maybe it's just easier to keep them that way.

[p1t1o]

I have heard anecdotally that the "fox" codes help when one has IR missile launch warning system.

 

These systems would sound a missile warning if a friendly aircraft nearby launched a missile at an enemy, so if you hear a fox call shortly followed by your MLWS going mad, you know you dont need to panic.

 

Further to that, I just assumed they added more codes so that any audio log or recording would contain more information.

 

But I suspect they just added more simply to have something to say. Like maybe someone invented fox codes, but didnt tell enough people why. Then someone sees them and is like "Oh sh&^! I need to think of a code for our weapons too!"

[Kang]

The information contained in either suggestion is more or less the same. I'd assume it's just easier to remember a couple words than a table full of numbers and - this might be more important - over radio having actual different words is much easier to distinguish.

 

Brevity only means you have one code word to shorten a sentence with, it doesn't mean it has to be an intuitive or quick-to-learn system.

 

Getting back to your example, it's not like there is a brevity code for each and every individual weapon type. «Magnum» signifies the use of an anti-radiation missile. HARM? Shrike? ALARM? Doesn't matter.

[_mu110_]

You can easily find a document called Multi-Service Brevity Codes which includes a number of these. For example there also exists Bruiser (Anti-ship missile), Long Rifle (long range A/G missile like SLAM), Pigs (glide weapons such as JSOW), etc.

[ExNusquam]

There's also some fun words you can pick up from various documentaries.

If you go looking you can also find the approved abbreviations/suggestions for using chat servers to support ops.

 

Part of the reason A/A missiles can be combined is that even if you don't hear the number, you can probably still understand what the other players are doing. There's vastly more variety in profile for A/G weapons. You'll note that sometimes you even hear the number truncated from comms in stressful situations.

[Jetguy06]

I've been trying to find the brevity term for releasing a JDAM. I used to think it was "Bruiser," but that is for an anti-ship missile. Can anyone please enlighten me?

[KlarSnow]

Its a bomb, Pickle.

There is no specific brevity for JDAM vs LGB vs Dumb Bomb. Pickle isnt even really what we say, unless you are trying to coordinate something in your formation, IE 3...2...1...Pickle, for a simultaneous release. Usually to a JTAC or some entity that cares, Weapons Away.

 

if you are just dropping a bomb on a target independent of any other entity involved... you don't need to say anything.

 

Normal comm for a release with a JTAC would be something along the lines of, nothing at release, then as we check away from the target "1 Away, XX seconds"[left to impact, understood but not said]

 

If doing a strike with the formation (no JTAC or outside agency) you wouldnt call release unless it was relevant to what you were doing, IE somebody else is lasing, you need a simultaneous release or impact, or its somehow related to what somebody else is going to do. I think the most common things we said was "bombs gone" or "weapons away" or "2 away."

 

To add a bit of knowledge on why Fox X calls are important and different from dropping bombs, Fox 1/2/3 calls are needed for In training telling another jet what you shot him with, so that the training aid (aggressor) can appropriately assess if he defeated the missile or not. Outside of training, and as part of tactics, there are contracts with AIC and your flight involving targeting and culminating an engagement, the Fox X call is an important part of all of that. So for example AWACS can know that contact X has been shot at with a fox 3, and so knows that if/when the friendly fighter turns around, he can still watch to see if the contact gets hit or not, where as if it was a Fox 1 he would know that contact would most definitely still be alive.

 

Nowadays at least in western Air forces where the Fox 1 is pretty well deprecated at this point, I guess there could be an argument to be made that you don't even really need the Fox with number call BVR.

 

For bombs, nobody but you and maybe your wingman really care about when the bomb comes off, and the comm will make no difference to anybody, especially if there is no coordination going on.

Edited January 11, 2020 by KlarSnow

[Richard Dastardly]

"Stores" would be the other generic one I've heared. "away" is just a generic word ( it's an actual brevity word ) to say you've dropped something ( so "stores away" in this case ). "Ripple" is also one but I've never heared a callout use it, so I've no idea when you would ( maybe firing multiple unguided rockets off? *shrug* )

 

I'll shout out if I launch a missile if I'm on my own because nearby A-10 pilots or others with missile warning will get very jumpy otherwise, but unless I'm working with someone then who cares if I drop a bomb. Given most comms on generic MP servers seems to be on guard, only calling a release when you have to helps a lot...

Edited January 13, 2020 by Richard Dastardly

[Ziptie]

I'll shout out if I launch a missile if I'm on my own because nearby A-10 pilots or others with missile warning will get very jumpy otherwise, but unless I'm working with someone then who cares if I drop a bomb. Given most comms on generic MP servers seems to be on guard, only calling a release when you have to helps a lot...

 

 

 

 

 

^^ and I appreciate that sir ^^ :thumbup:

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

[Jetguy06]

Gotchya. I figured it was important for the same reasons calling "Fox x" is. I also thought "paveway" was what was called when dropping an LGB, but that came from another not-to-be-named sim.

[KlarSnow]

Think, does my letting everyone in the world know i'm releasing this weapon add to their SA, in a tactical manner? If you are self lasing in an LGB, me doing my pop up attack 20 miles away... I don't give a crap about your bomb, you don't give a crap about mine its impact has no effect on anything I am doing, so the comm is just extra unnecessary chatter.

 

if you were hitting something that directly impacted my attack, say a SAM site that is protecting my target, then I might care about your bomb release, but what I probably care more about is when it impacts and if it was successful. Knowing when you released the bomb or what type of bomb doesn't really tell me anything super useful.

 

Magnum is a special case because the timing of the magnum call (and more importantly when it will timeout) can drastically affect the coverage, IE if I'm in a SAM mez and I don't hear Magnum at the right times, I would get concerned.

 

I do however care about hearing the CAP call Fox 3 on the bandit contact that is closing on us while I am doing my A/G stuff. Lets me know that they have targeted and shot at that contact, and now I should have more time, also lets me know to expect a splash or kill call soon, and if not, well time to start thinking defensively.

Edited January 13, 2020 by KlarSnow

[Notso]

Think, does my letting everyone in the world know i'm releasing this weapon add to their SA, in a tactical manner? If you are self lasing in an LGB, me doing my pop up attack 20 miles away... I don't give a crap about your bomb, you don't give a crap about mine its impact has no effect on anything I am doing, so the comm is just extra unnecessary chatter.

 

if you were hitting something that directly impacted my attack, say a SAM site that is protecting my target, then I might care about your bomb release, but what I probably care more about is when it impacts and if it was successful. Knowing when you released the bomb or what type of bomb doesn't really tell me anything super useful.

 

Magnum is a special case because the timing of the magnum call (and more importantly when it will timeout) can drastically affect the coverage, IE if I'm in a SAM mez and I don't hear Magnum at the right times, I would get concerned.

 

I do however care about hearing the CAP call Fox 3 on the bandit contact that is closing on us while I am doing my A/G stuff. Lets me know that they have targeted and shot at that contact, and now I should have more time, also lets me know to expect a splash or kill call soon, and if not, well time to start thinking defensively.

 

Ding!

[Notso]

For those that want the official source: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a404426.pdf

 

Distribution/Availability Statement

Approved for public release, distribution unlimited

[Tholozor]

@Jetguy06, "Paveway" is the correct brevity code for launching a laser-guided bomb, it's not from that-which-will-not-be-named, they just used the correct brevity.

[fagulha]

PIG away: JSOW´s.

[Richard Dastardly]

@Jetguy06, "Paveway" is the correct brevity code for launching a laser-guided bomb, it's not from that-which-will-not-be-named, they just used the correct brevity.

 

From what era? not current, at least.

[Ziptie]

Well, if a "public / open sourced" reference site can be trusted completely, which might be debatable in that regard, paveway is the correct brevity call for a laser guided bomb. Era, undisclosed.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiservice_tactical_brevity_code#P

[Notso]

Well, if a "public / open sourced" reference site can be trusted completely, which might be debatable in that regard, paveway is the correct brevity call for a laser guided bomb. Era, undisclosed.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiservice_tactical_brevity_code#P

 

Not accurate.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Notso

[KlarSnow]

If you truly want to start getting tactical with how strikes and bomb drops are coordinated, give supporting or other assets your target location, and your time on target (TOT). This info is HUUUUGE from an escort perspective, because it tells them WHERE to protect, and for UNTIL WHEN. Once they know that, escort or other things in theater, no longer need to hear anything from you unless something changes, such as the time of your impact, or that you are threatened along your route and need assistance.

 

Your Time on Target can also be a window, IE HAWG flight will be engaging targets in vicinity of XYZ for the next 5 minutes, and then egressing south.

 

That gives far more SA to airborne assets than you calling Pickle, Paveway, Etc, for each bomb release.

[Ziptie]

Hence my “if a public source can be trusted bit.” It’s pickle for my call.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

[Notso]

It’s pickle for my call.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

 

Nope, still not correct. Pickle is still not a normal Brevity word or call used on the radio. Pickle doesn't really tell anyone anything useful. It just means you Pressed the weapons release button. Did the bombs come off the jet? Maybe not - maybe they were hung or you just forgot to turn on the master arm.

 

A more correct call (though usually still not required anyway) would be an "OFF" call with a status. OFF HOT means the bombs came off when you pickled. OFF DRY means you either aborted the pass or nothing happened when you mashed the button.

 

In a normal interdiction event - the OFF HOT call is rarely needed and doesn't add SA to anyone. If the attack went as planned and you pickled on your correct target and the bombs came off as expected, silence is golden. If you went DRY on the attack for whatever reason, in that case I would certainly tell my flight lead or wingman so the decision can be made as to whether to re-attack or not.

 

About the only other time you would make an OFF HOT call is either on a controlled bombing range or if doing Type 1 or 2 CAS and you want to let the JTAC know there is a bomb on the way. Another typical scenario to make a weapons release call is if you're the bomb mule in a buddy lase event. In that case - typically you would say to the person lasing the bomb "OFF HOT, 30 secs" (time to impact) so they know to get the laser on at the right time if doing a delay lase. Even if doing a continuous lase, the 'OFF HOT' call is still a head's up to get the F'ing laser on if they forgot to turn it on prior to release.

 

The #1 rule to tactical communications that you always should ask yourself before you key the mic switch is: "Does this call add SA to someone, is it needed or required?" If none of the above, then all you're doing is garbaging up an already busy net just to hear yourself speak. When in doubt, stop talking.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Notso

[SacredRaziel]

Just out of curiosity,

Is there a specific call for a nuke or an addition to a "normal" call?

In theory the airspace should be deconflicted and everyone in the area should be aware of a pending nuclear strike but somehow it feels wrong to me not to mention that you just dropped a nuke...

 

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[Harker]

Just out of curiosity,

Is there a specific call for a nuke or an addition to a "normal" call?

In theory the airspace should be deconflicted and everyone in the area should be aware of a pending nuclear strike but somehow it feels wrong to me not to mention that you just dropped a nuke...

 

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I looked around and found MUSHROOM for delivery/detonation and BEWARE for 30 seconds before release or for alerting others to a possible enemy nuke.

I guess if a nuke is about to go off, you don't really care if it's "friendly" or not. Even if you're well outside the blast radius, with the amount of high energy neutrons and gammas that's instantly released, you want to be as far away as humanly possible.

[KlarSnow]

USMC_Trev, just FYI you are talking to at least three people who have dropped bombs, we don't say pickle over the radio except as discussed regardless of whether its the correct brevity or not, because its useless except in specific circumstances... Like saying Angels or Cherubs instead of just feet when calling out an altitude.

 

Maybe its different in different services or MDS, but I can't think of a single instance where I heard "pickle" on the radio as described other than what a couple of us have said in coordination with other elements.

 

In and out of combat, with and without JTAC's.