Wags original landing tutorial vs DCS in game tutorial

[SmoglessPanic]

I've been landing the way Wags explained it in that first video just before Viper release.

 

Wags: (Briefly)

 

- At 300 knots start your turn at the opposite end of the runway, no air brake, after that drop gear and air brakes, 8-10 degree nose down, align 2.5 degree glide slope.

 

In Game: (Brieftly)

 

- At 300 knots start your turn at the landing point, air brake, after that drop gear, 8-10 degree nose down, align 2.5 degree glide slope. (in game tutorial mentions trimming nose up but this is wrong, I've asked twice to make sure)

 

Which is the right way? Both work but I'd like to know which one is the actual way to do it.

[regards]

I've been landing the way Wags explained it in that first video just before Viper release.

 

Wags: (Briefly)

 

- At 300 knots start your turn at the opposite end of the runway, no air brake, after that drop gear and air brakes, 8-10 degree nose down, align 2.5 degree glide slope.

 

In Game: (Brieftly)

 

- At 300 knots start your turn at the landing point, air brake, after that drop gear, 8-10 degree nose down, align 2.5 degree glide slope. (in game tutorial mentions trimming nose up but this is wrong, I've asked twice to make sure)

 

Which is the right way? Both work but I'd like to know which one is the actual way to do it.

 

 

I think there's no good or wrong way....

 

As long as you're able to walk away from the bird without leaving scratches on it ( or worse) it's considered to be a good landing.

Every landing depends on many variables. IAS, crosswind, air density, total weight of the plane etc. prior to touchdown.

 

I'd say: practice, practice, practice and at some point you'll get familiar with all of the external parameters and succeed.

[SmoglessPanic]

I think there's no good or wrong way....

 

As long as you're able to walk away from the bird without leaving scratches on it ( or worse) it's considered to be a good landing.

Every landing depends on many variables. IAS, crosswind, air density, total weight of the plane etc. prior to touchdown.

 

I'd say: practice, practice, practice and at some point you'll get familiar with all of the external parameters and succeed.

 

That's kinda where I was at, every once in a while I have a bad landing but overall they are mostly ok.

 

I just wanted to make sure I was opening speed brakes at the right part of the pattern and doing everything I needed to do at the right time but all in all you are correct, any landing you can walk away from.

 

I will stick to my old way of doing things. (Wags vid tutorial)

 

Thanks!

[Deano87]

I think you're overthinking it.

 

The good book (the -1 Flight Manual) says break at the far end of the runway but says "Speedbrakes - As Required" for both the break and downwind. It does say that speedbrakes should be open by the time you get onto base leg but doesn't offer any concrete advice on the shape/size of the circuit. I guess it comes down to doing some of that Pilot S$£t.

[SmoglessPanic]

I think you're overthinking it.

 

"I guess it comes down to doing some of that Pilot S$£t."

 

hehe

 

Well said, I understand. There is some liberty there to do what needs to be done and what fits you within those parameters to get the bird down.

[Deano87]

hehe

 

Well said, I understand. There is some liberty there to do what needs to be done and what fits you within those parameters to get the bird down.

 

Exactly :thumbup:

[bbrz]

There is some liberty there to do what needs to be done and what fits you within those parameters to get the bird down.

Same goes for trim. If you don't trim, your F-16 will settle at a 1deg too low AoA for the optimum approach speed, hence trimming nose up is definitely not wrong.

[Paganus]

You want to follow best practices and procedures, but any sort of "standard" way is often overruled by airfield requirements. Check the ATIS. ;) :pilotfly:

[Deano87]

Same goes for trim. If you don't trim, your F-16 will settle at a 1deg too low AoA for the optimum approach speed, hence trimming nose up is definitely not wrong.

 

Yeah it can be done either way. I don't trim because thats how my brother was taught to fly the real aircraft and I like flying they approach while requiring a little back pressure on the stick, Allows for more precise placement of the FPM for me at least. Having the FSSB probably has something to do with that. YMMV

[BlueAngel]

Watch real F-16s landings (live or in videos). I used to watch them daily when I worked near an airbase.

I have seen them both with and without boards out, most likely having to do with weight, wind conditions, etc.

[Dee-Jay]

What is not said is the bank angle during break.

At 300KCAS, 60° bank angle (which is 2Gs) is good for propper axis spacing allowing a gentle 30° - 40° bank on final turn with a -5° path during the fist half of turn.

At 300KCAS (which is rather low) I suggest not airbrakes otherwise you will be a high AOA in downwing. Depending on loadouts, I recomend airbrake open on final wich is safer in case of go arround (higher RMP, less spoon up time to get full power).

[SmoglessPanic]

What are the degrees for the bank angle bars in the HUD per bar? I"ve been trying to look it up but I cannot find it.

 

I know I'm not explaining it right but I usually bank lets say Left for example until the third bar from the left, so there are two bars from where my marker is...I know that doesn't make sense at all but it's the best way I can explain it.

 

I appreciate all the input I will take it all into account and try to make the landing my own.

[randomTOTEN]

ATC requirements (spacing) may also dictate where the break occurs.

[Dee-Jay]

What are the degrees for the bank angle bars in the HUD per bar? I"ve been trying to look it up but I cannot find it.

 

I know I'm not explaining it right but I usually bank lets say Left for example until the third bar from the left, so there are two bars from where my marker is...I know that doesn't make sense at all but it's the best way I can explain it.

 

IIRC there is a 60° mark on tje STBY ADI but it does not work properly yet.

Simply fly 2G in turn, you will be at 60°. Take some cues such as horizon on the top right / left edge of the HUD mount for example ...)

[Frederf]

I've been landing the way Wags explained it in that first video just before Viper release.

 

Wags: (Briefly)

 

- At 300 knots start your turn at the opposite end of the runway, no air brake, after that drop gear and air brakes, 8-10 degree nose down, align 2.5 degree glide slope.

 

In Game: (Brieftly)

 

- At 300 knots start your turn at the landing point, air brake, after that drop gear, 8-10 degree nose down, align 2.5 degree glide slope. (in game tutorial mentions trimming nose up but this is wrong, I've asked twice to make sure)

 

Which is the right way? Both work but I'd like to know which one is the actual way to do it.

 

The point at which the level break is initiated is not sooner than abeam the intended touchdown point. Commonly the overhead pattern involves a flight of up to four airplanes which have some interval among them so it's not unusual for the fourth airplane to be turning several seconds after his leader. The diagram in the manual should not be interpreted as starting the level break at the far end of the runway because it's a perspective drawing of a qualitative concept and not something to take exact values from. None of the text of the manual comments on where the level break occurs.

 

Realize that the manual is written by the manufacturer of the airplane GD/Lockheed which has little interest in the USAF procedural aspect and is primarily concerned with the safe operation of the airplane outside of the military context. There are other military documents which would describe aspects of the overhead approach which are relevant to the USAF.

 

Breaking "over the numbers" is difficult because the downwind leg is extremely short leaving little opportunity for speed, configuration, lateral spacing, altitude corrections. When practicing or inexperienced it's better to delay the level break to mid field or even farther. What's important is that when working with other airplanes and restrictions of airspace that you're on the same page. Notice that the -1 doesn't mention the radius of the turns or lateral spacing because that's up to the operator and the operating environment.

[HILOK]

What are the degrees for the bank angle bars in the HUD per bar? I"ve been trying to look it up but I cannot find it.

 

the roll indicator tick marks on the HUD are placed at 10,20,30,45 degrees L/R respectively

[Wags]

Hi guys,

 

I've talked with Viper pilot friends of mine about this, and I spent a few hours in an F-16 simulator at the AZ ANG with Viper IPs over my shoulder yelling at me. It all comes down to two things:

 

- Roll out on the downwind with the wing tip just below the runway.

- At the perch, be at 1.5k AGL between 210 and 180 kts with the landing area 45-degrees behind you.

 

How you get there is up to the pilot and different pilots have different technique. There is no one, single "right" answer. A lot is variable depending on weight, entry speed, creating proper separation with other flight members, etc.

 

Thanks

Edited February 22, 2020 by Wags

[jross194]

Yup. Good friend of mine got me some time in a Viper sim; several of them standing behind me (I'd had many Faclon 3/4 hours in by then and thought I kinda knew what to do - mid-1990's). Well, they were all "hey, good", and "not bad", until I was about mid-field rolling out. Then one said, "nice landing", then all rest, in unison, yelled, "ALL OF THEM!" - seems I bounced it slightly. Tuff crowd.

[SmoglessPanic]

I appreciate all the input from everyone I learned a lot. I will go practice, practice, and practice some more.

 

Thanks!

[macedk]

Hi guys,

 

I've talked with Viper pilot friends of mine about this, and I spent a few hours in an F-16 simulator at the AZ ANG with Viper IPs over my shoulder yelling at me. It all comes down to two things:

 

- Roll out on the downwind with the wing tip just below the runway.

- At the perch, be at 1.5k AGL between 210 and 180 kts with the landing area 45-degrees behind you.

 

How you get there is up to the pilot and different pilots have different technique. There is no one, single "right" answer. A lot is variable depending on weight, entry speed, creating proper separation with other flight members, etc.

 

Thanks

 

True I just wing it within reason and doing fine :)

 

I do raise the seat on final or the e bracket falls low on the hud (for me)

 

Also this is no F-18 hornet with slow engine response, they are quite different on engine mangement.

[macedk]

Of all dcs modules ..easiest to land is the hornet, and I had no concept of flying throttle for pitch but the hornet module learned me that. I knew of the concept but had never learned it.

 

F-16 has a narrow gear as well, so be on it. Also sim wise ...set up your controls right , default might not be for you and your style.