[WIP] Anti-Ship Missile, low damage

[RichardG]

The anti-ship missile C 801 is doing very little damage to ships. 364 pounds of explosives.

Edited March 19, 2020 by uboats

[Harlikwin]

Not that I've seen. It takes 2 hits to sink most DD's and FFG's. Of course more for big ships.

[Rudel_chw]

Not that I've seen. It takes 2 hits to sink most DD's and FFG's.

 

I'm in the course of editing an antiship training mission, and in over a dozen attacks not once have I managed to sink a DD or FFG with two hits. Even a submarine, wont sink with a single hit. Tried bot with sea skimming and popup attacks, the result is the same.

 

As I don't want to discourage the new pilot with these weak results, I've had to resort to only using transports as target, which isn't very realistic.

 

So, yes, I believe that a bit higher damage abilities for this missile is needed ... the explosions tough, are visually impressive:

 

 

... but if the ship does not sink then what´s the point in doing the attack? :)

 

Hopefully the Developers will agree and tune this a bit.

Best regards,

 

 

Eduardo

[shaHeen-1]

I've had damage vary significantly. I think it depends a lot on where you make contact.

[Rudel_chw]

I've had damage vary significantly. I think it depends a lot on where you make contact.

 

My experience is very different, out of more than a dozen different attempts, I've yet to sink a frigate or Destroyer with this missile.

 

Even submarines seem to be immune, surviving direct hits:

 

 

:(

[Blinky.ben]

I do a lot of anti-ship attacks on servers and now it’s becoming pointless. Only carry 2 missile and the travel time for no results it making it pointless. Each update the JF-17 is becoming weaker and weaker. This jet which is my favourite is being killed. I’m starting to lean to going back to the other jets. Has anyone tried the LD-10’s yet? The update suggest they have also been downgraded?

[Rudel_chw]

Another strange thing that I've noticed, is that on over 80% of the attacks, both missiles go towards the same ship of the enemy formation ... even if I fire them 10 seconds apart, and with slightly different turn points for each ... for example, this is my 2nd missile, going right towards the ship impacted earlier by my first missile :(

 

 

Of course, I can space them more than 10 seconds, but in real life I would prefer to get simultaneous missiles in order to overwhelm the defenses, isnt it?

[Blinky.ben]

That due to the radar picking up the same target. The missile needs to approach from a different angle. I normally fire one missile the turn 90 degrees left or right and travel for about 20sec then turn back in and fire the second one.

[lokodehortaleza]

Warships are tough. On May 17th 1987, USS Stark FFG-31 was hit by 2 Exocet missiles, fired by an iraqi Mirage F1. 31 sailors were killed, the ship was on fire and listing, but it didn't sink. It sailed to Bahrain, and after temporary repairs it sailed under her own power back to the USA. Eventually it was completely repaired and returned to service.

 

You can't hope to sink destroyers and cruisers, at least twice the size of that Oliver Hazard Perry class FFG, flying a solo mission on a light jet with 2 missiles. Even if the ships don't defend themselves, at most you can hope for a mission kill, cause enough damage to take the ship out of the fight, I don't know if DCS currently simulates this.

[foxwxl]

I've tested the 802AK today on OB and latest testing branch, 802AK and Harpoon basically deal the same damage to the ship.

 

And 802AK killed a Oliver. Perry with 2 hits. I think the value is quite reasonable.

[Tippis]

Yeah, ships have if anything been a bit too easy to destroy before, although that probably ties in with the single-scenario focus and the lacking damage modelling in AI units — you only get points of destruction, not for function reductions (in the few cases those even exist).

 

If you're making your own missions, you can of course get around this by tying various conditions and triggers into “unit damaged” rather than relying on player scores and death/unit-in-zone ones. Set it up so that if a ship is damaged, its AI goes dead, or it skips to a “run away!!” waypoint, or its ROE/threat changes… Or just make it explode even if it only lost a few percent, so the challenge is to get the missile to connect at all in spite of whatever defences there are in place to shoot it (or the plane) down.

 

There are many ways around it that don't rely on making the missiles stupidly powerful, and as a benefit, it also means you can set up more complex missions where multiple coordinated hits from multiple aircraft are needed, because then you rely on that low damage accumulating over several attacks.

[Rudel_chw]

I've tested the 802AK today on OB and latest testing branch, 802AK and Harpoon basically deal the same damage to the ship.

 

And 802AK killed a Oliver. Perry with 2 hits.

 

Sadly, that hasn't been my experience so far .. I've performed around 15 sorties (in single player, just one JF-17 with two missiles) while testing a training mission that I'm editing, and I've never been able to kill a warship.

 

As on my mission the hostiles are red, I've only used russian and/or chinese warships, so I haven't tried against the Oliver Perry ... but here is an example of two missile hits against the smallest russian warship:

 

 

... and this are the results:

 

 

If you're making your own missions, you can of course get around this by tying various conditions and triggers into “unit damaged” rather than relying on player scores and death/unit-in-zone ones.

 

Yes, thanks for the suggestion, will probably have to end up doing that :(

 

There are many ways around it that don't rely on making the missiles stupidly powerful, and as a benefit, it also means you can set up more complex missions where multiple coordinated hits from multiple aircraft are needed.

 

That's an option only for Multiplayer Missions, on single player is kind of hard getting the AI to attack in coordination with your own plane.

 

Anyway, I've used the Viggen a lot on anti-shipping missions and my seat of the pants impression is that the C-802AK is a bit too weak.

 

Best regards

[paco2002]

Sadly, that hasn't been my experience so far .. I've performed around 15 sorties (in single player, just one JF-17 with two missiles) while testing a training mission that I'm editing, and I've never been able to kill a warship.

 

As on my mission the hostiles are red, I've only used russian and/or chinese warships, so I haven't tried against the Oliver Perry ... but here is an example of two missile hits against the smallest russian warship:

 

 

... and this are the results:

 

 

 

 

Yes, thanks for the suggestion, will probably have to end up doing that :(

 

 

 

That's an option only for Multiplayer Missions, on single player is kind of hard getting the AI to attack in coordination with your own plane.

 

Anyway, I've used the Viggen a lot on anti-shipping missions and my seat of the pants impression is that the C-802AK is a bit too weak.

 

Best regards

The Viggen can sink carriers with only 2 missiles, that's too powerful and unbalanced, also, the 802AK is a Little bit weak, i think it needs more damage

[foxwxl]

IMO, RB15 is way too much powerful in the game (lighter than Harpoon & C802, only with 200KG HE). If U are used to it, all the sub-sonic ASM in the game won't be able to satisfy U.:lol:

[Rudel_chw]

IMO, RB15 is way too much powerful in the game (lighter than Harpoon & C802, only with 200KG HE). If U are used to it, all the sub-sonic ASM in the game won't be able to satisfy U.:lol:

 

I’m not that hard to satisfy :)

 

... so, you are OK that two cruise missile hits in a row can not sink a small escort like the Molniya?

[AeriaGloria]

I sunk a Molniya once with two. Wish I could find the track... I know the warhead was updated an update or two ago, for a long time it was same as Maverick warhead

[foxwxl]

I’m not that hard to satisfy :)

 

... so, you are OK that two cruise missile hits in a row can not sink a small escort like the Molniya?

 

If the Perry FFG can be sunk in 2 hits, missile boat shouldn't be that hard. Will try later.

[fragal]

Erm hate to break it to you but the AK's take 6 hits to sink a perry they do 23% per hit, they used to take 2 now it's almost double that, rough tacview here but everytime since then it always takes 6, 4 to disable, 6 to sink.

I can recheck tonight but from mp and other flights perry's always take 6 now.

Tacview-20200304-205831-DCS.zip (1).zip

[foxwxl]

After consulting our weapon engineer, the 802 damage problem has already been awared and under tweaking internally.

 

On the latest test branch, the 1 hit of 802 on perry deal about 45-48% damage (sorry the BDA is not working on my side).

 

1 hit on Molniya deal about 95-98% damage.

[Rudel_chw]

After consulting our weapon engineer, the 802 damage problem has already been awared and under tweaking internally.

 

Glad to hear this news .. thanks a lot for a wonderful DCS aircraft :thumbup:

[Harlikwin]

I've tested the 802AK today on OB and latest testing branch, 802AK and Harpoon basically deal the same damage to the ship.

 

And 802AK killed a Oliver. Perry with 2 hits. I think the value is quite reasonable.

 

This is also my experience. In general 2 hits (they don't always hit due CIWS etc), will sink or mortally cripple most FFG's and DDG's.

 

Also I think waterline, vs popup attacks do different damage.

[Rudel_chw]

This is also my experience. In general 2 hits (they don't always hit due CIWS etc), will sink or mortally cripple most FFG's and DDG's.

 

Not my experience at all, but dont want to argue with you, as the developer has acknowledged the problem: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4247130&postcount=19

 

:)

[Kazansky222]

It used to take 2 hits to kill OHP, but since the 802 and LS-10 warhead updates it takes 6 now. in MP at least, can't say about SP.

[uboats]

2 sink Perry is reasonable

[Harlikwin]

Not my experience at all, but dont want to argue with you, as the developer has acknowledged the problem: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4247130&postcount=19

 

:)

 

 

I also tested this a while back so it may have changed.