SAR mode for the air to ground radar?

[Tomas9970]

Will our F/A-18 have it at some point?

 

Here's a video I found, showing it on an F-35 simulator.

[Swift.]

You are aware that the F35 uses an advanced AESA radar and our hornet has an old mechanical radar?

[m4ti140]

Last time I checked this was an F/A-18C module, not F-35... F/A-18C Lot 20 only has DBS AFAIK, there was an option to upgrade those with SAR capability but it was never done, at least in Navy Hornets. I think the Super Hornets do have it, but I'm not sure.

[Tomas9970]

I'm aware that the F-35 has a much better radar. I just thought that the F/A-18 could do it, just not so well.

 

m4ti140 thanks for the answer. I guess DBS will have to do the trick. How about some other planes in development or EA? Can they do it?

 

edit:Apparently F-15E has SAR capability.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Tomas9970

[VFA41_Lion]

EXP3 on the Hornet's A2G radar will be the closest we get to SAR detail.

[Swift.]

EXP3 on the Hornet's A2G radar will be the closest we get to SAR detail.

 

It still wont be even close to what you see in those f35 videos

[Tomas9970]

It still wont be even close to what you see in those f35 videos

I get it and expect that.

 

The point is that it's much better than real time scanning in terms of resolution.

[Swift.]

Here is some footage of hornets AG radar, you can see him expand twice up to at least EXP2. Thanks to VMFA-169|Terrificfool

[Tomas9970]

Thanks for the footage. Now I understand what the EXP modes do and it's about what I want without the fancy UI like on the F-35.

 

The image quality is quite good if you ignore the tiling that's there because of the video compression.

[jojo]

Here is some footage of hornets AG radar, you can see him expand twice up to at least EXP2. Thanks to VMFA-169|Terrificfool

 

These are Desert Storm footage. Which means 1991.

There were some upgrades since then...

[Harker]

From what I've read, we should be able to go up to EXP 3.

[dramabeats]

These are Desert Storm footage. Which means 1991.

There were some upgrades since then...

 

Multiple pilots who have flown the legacy hornet recently commented that they only use it to spot bad weather.. quality is not good

 

The 73 is probably a little better than whats in the video but not by much

[Airhunter]

These are Desert Storm footage. Which means 1991.

There were some upgrades since then...

 

Source?

[Swift.]

From what I've read, we should be able to go up to EXP 3.

 

Indeed it should, but you can extrapolate the kind of quality you will get from that by watching the video.

[Kev2go]

Source?

 

 

Really? like a quick search would tell you this.

 

 

The Radars the Hornets were using in Desert Storm was with the original APG65 radar....

 

APG73 ( phase 1) was adopted starting 1994 with full rate production in 1996. A few years later PHASE 2 upgrades followed which addressed improvements in A/G capabilities.

 

The very last APG73 Phase 2 was delivered by 2006.

 

 

Our DCS Hornet will almost certainly have be the APG 73 phase 2.

 

So medium resolution SAR will be achievable via EXP 3, which certainly means better A/G map resolution and additional level of zoom to what was available during the gulf war.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=192382

Edited May 6, 2020 by Kev2go

[G B]

The Radars the Hornets were using in Desert Storm was with the original APG65 radar....

 

APG73 ( phase 1) was adopted starting 1994 with full rate production in 1996. A few years later PHASE 2 upgrades followed which addressed improvements in A/G capabilities.

 

The very last APG73 Phase 2 was delivered by 2006.

 

 

Our Hornet will certainly have be the APG 73 phase 2.

 

so Medium resolution SAR will be a thing via EXP 3, which certainly means better A/G map resolution and additional level of zoom to what was available during the gulf war.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=192382

 

Don’t get your hopes too high.

[Santi871]

Both 65 and 73 are EXP3/MRSAR capable.

[Harlikwin]

Here is some footage of hornets AG radar, you can see him expand twice up to at least EXP2. Thanks to VMFA-169|Terrificfool

 

Is there a specific time stamp you are talking about? The bulk of that vid like 90%+ look like flir images to me. Usually in bHot. Occasionally in wHot... you can clearly seen the early thermal line scan raster patterns in most of them. And when the sensors dynamic range gets wiped out by the bomb hits etc. And ive spent alot of time looking at thermal images like that along with personally owning alot of old school "chopper" tech thermals like what would have been used in GW1.

 

Also, IHMO ED's current "thermal" model rhymes with "grit"... ot should look more like your vid. :)

Edited May 6, 2020 by Harlikwin

[toilet2000]

Has Santi has said, our Hornet is definitely capable of Medium Resolution SAR (EXP3), but it is far from the kind of image the F-35 gets.

[Kev2go]

Both 65 and 73 are EXP3/MRSAR capable.

 

where are you getting that from? NWP 3.22.5?

 

 

https://csis-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/legacy_files/files/media/csis/pubs/941015lessonsgulfiv-chap05.pdf

 

it certainly seems not during the gulf war. This is a publication from 1994.

 

 

 

"It is also planning

upgrades to the APG-65 radars on its F/A-18s that will provide an all-weather stand-off

imaging capability, and a strip mode radar coverage for reconnaissance purposes, as well as

hardware and software changes that increase synthetic aperture radar capability"

 

 

However for all intents and purposes those series of "upgrades" Lead to development of the APG73 which replaced the APG65's.

 

https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_pdf.cfm?DACH_RECNO=328

Edited May 6, 2020 by Kev2go

[Harlikwin]

https://csis-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/legacy_files/files/media/csis/pubs/941015lessonsgulfiv-chap05.pdf

 

not during the gulf war. This is a publication from 1994.

 

 

 

"It is also planning

upgrades to the APG-65 radars on its F/A-18s that will provide an all-weather stand-off

imaging capability, and a strip mode radar coverage for reconnaissance purposes, as well as

hardware and software changes that increase synthetic aperture radar capability"

 

 

However for all intents and purposes that Lead to development of the APG73 which replaced the APG65's.

 

 

https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_pdf.cfm?DACH_RECNO=328

 

Doubly convinced that most of that imagery in the vid was flir.

[Kev2go]

Doubly convinced that most of that imagery in the vid was flir.

 

4:19 to 4:28.

 

is a A/G map image. But honestly because its a VHS era of recording the quality of the recording itself is subapr. and is not an ideal indication, nor do you see any of the modes operated.

 

 

IF people did some open source hunting on thier own you can get a decent ballpark idea from open sources you can get of what to expect from imaging quality of generation of mechanical radars of a comparable generation and timeframes.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Kev2go

[jojo]

Multiple pilots who have flown the legacy hornet recently commented that they only use it to spot bad weather.. quality is not good

 

The 73 is probably a little better than whats in the video but not by much

 

Yes, but they have mainly be doing CAS in open air space for 20 years.

 

Try to perform AI in GPS denied environment and inclement weather and radar will become much more useful. :smilewink:

There is reason why they still worked on it on F-35. Off course, they improved it to another level.

[KlarSnow]

And in inclement weather with GPS denied single seat 4th gen platforms will be providing escort and SEAD support for the two seat 4th gen platforms that go in and perform the strike... There are assets that specialize in that stuff and train to it as a primary mission set, whereas other platforms do not. Reference desert storm... F-16's and F-18s had Air to ground radar and "all weather" capability, but those mission sets were given to specialists every time: A-6's F-111's and F-15E's.

 

You don't gain/regain a non used skill set overnight to 100% proficiency, that's why fighter squadrons train all the time to specific mission sets, and don't use the systems that aren't useful for their specific mission sets. Also why you have two seat jets around, so that you can compartmentalize those skill sets into two crew members.

[jojo]

And in inclement weather with GPS denied single seat 4th gen platforms will be providing escort and SEAD support for the two seat 4th gen platforms that go in and perform the strike... There are assets that specialize in that stuff and train to it as a primary mission set, whereas other platforms do not. Reference desert storm... F-16's and F-18s had Air to ground radar and "all weather" capability, but those mission sets were given to specialists every time: A-6's F-111's and F-15E's.

 

You don't gain/regain a non used skill set overnight to 100% proficiency, that's why fighter squadrons train all the time to specific mission sets, and don't use the systems that aren't useful for their specific mission sets. Also why you have two seat jets around, so that you can compartmentalize those skill sets into two crew members.

 

Have you ever heard about F/A-18D ?

 

Yes, squadrons don’t always use the full set of possibilities of their aircraft. So what ?

Does it mean that EXP 3 wouldn’t be available on F/A-18C because they spent the last years doing CAS missions ?

 

Since Desert Storm only the F-15E is remaining. So there may be a shortage of dedicated assets and crew...

And the SAR mode isn’t specific to low altitude. So I don’t see the necessity of 2 man crew to use it.

Edited May 6, 2020 by jojo