[REPORTED] Performance Issues

[lj0076]

Problem solved!

I confirm here written, really this massive drop in fps is causing shadows to be set. Switched from "high" to "flat only" and currently on an otherwise empty board I have my 65 fps back!

 

And now I don't know if I should rejoice or cry ... ?? : doh:

[statrekmike]

Problem solved!

I confirm here written, really this massive drop in fps is causing shadows to be set. Switched from "high" to "flat only" and currently on an otherwise empty board I have my 65 fps back!

 

And now I don't know if I should rejoice or cry ... ?? : doh:

 

Yeah, I have had the same experience. If I even have shadows set to low, I have SEVERE framerate issues when looking in the general direction of the carrier's superstructure. Even with all types of anti-aliasing off, I still encounter massive framerate drops. When I turn shadows off or turn them to flat (which is pretty much the same as having them off), the sim looks awful but I get a significant performance boost and it is playable even with my usual 1.5 SSAA enabled (to remove the distracting jaggies).

 

The issue here seems to be shadows. As I said before, I think that this might have something to do with some of the parts of the superstructure where you have a lot of thin, almost "wire mesh" looking parts (like one of the spinning antenna's and some of the walkways). Those create very complex shadows and while I am sure it looks great for people with VERY high-end graphics cards, it may be a big reason why the Supercarrier hits systems with even GTX 1070's way too hard.

 

For what it is worth, here is my suggestion. If it is possible, try to find a way to reduce the complexity of certain parts of the Supercarrier where you get that "wire mesh" look (again, one of the spinning antenna dishes and some of the walkways). Perhaps by having them cast simple shadows (as if they were a solid piece and not a bunch of relatively thin pieces of metal put together), we might see better framerates without seriously compromising the graphical quality of the carrier itself. Heck, perhaps even find a way to provide a "flat shadows for Supercarrier" option that will set only the shadows cast by the various parts of the Supercarrier to flat while the rest of the shadows run as usual. It wouldn't look as great but it would potentially solve the issue.

 

I could be wrong about this but it is the only thing I can think of.

Edited May 22, 2020 by statrekmike

[wilbur81]

Can confirm.

Shadows on low, med or high = 20-25 fps.

Flat shadows = 50 fps, but the cockpit looks godawful.

.

 

^^^ My experience on all counts.

 

If someone could solve the DCS shadows problem, they'd have a BIG WIN on their hands, indeed! Perhaps Vulkan could allow 5 cores to cover shadows alone. :doh:

[Gripen 4-1]

Problem solved!

I confirm here written, really this massive drop in fps is causing shadows to be set. Switched from "high" to "flat only" and currently on an otherwise empty board I have my 65 fps back!

 

And now I don't know if I should rejoice or cry ... ?? : doh:

 

Haha :lol: but the Problem is, that I can't see any shadows on the deck of the sc when set on flat. They are simply gone then.

 

Opened this thread in the general bug section but did not get an answer yet:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=274504

 

Anyone expiriencing the same ? No shadows when set to flat?

 

Cheers

[Tinkickef]

Can confirm. Very poor performance (VR) with empty deck, just one AI AWACS launching from cat 3 at the start of a simple cold start mission.

 

Its like reprojection is not working. When turning hard on deck (F14) to line up with the cat, the frames drop so low that the deck crew blur.

[Gripen 4-1]

Haha :lol: but the Problem is, that I can't see any shadows on the deck of the sc when set on flat. They are simply gone then.

 

Opened this thread in the general bug section but did not get an answer yet:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=274504

 

Anyone expiriencing the same ? No shadows when set to flat?

 

Cheers

 

And here are some screenshots; first pics in the Album are with low shadows, the others are with flat shadows:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/66DuuiYZmV7vNCQX9

 

where are my shadows, when set to flat??????

[Ratcatcher]

Can confirm. Very poor performance (VR) with empty deck, just one AI AWACS launching from cat 3 at the start of a simple cold start mission.

 

Its like reprojection is not working. When turning hard on deck (F14) to line up with the cat, the frames drop so low that the deck crew blur.

 

Jeez I'm glad I didn't upgrade on the strength of my rigs performance in SC, because if your systems struggling there's simply no point!

 

The odd thing is that I've just read an older thread on the main SC page that’s just been resurrected from 2019, which had various comments from Wags and BigNewy stating performance on SC was good, etc. There clearly seems a discrepancy here as to what people are experiencing and is more complicated than just the "your system sucks" response some are saying to those suffering very poor performance.

[Ratcatcher]

It´s a bug. Most people are fine.

 

Yes, but that's the issue, it's a bug only affecting some people regardless of their hardware, but not others. Sounds like it's going to be a tough one to crack. But let's hope not!

[RAF_JAGUAR]

Shadows setting is the only setting that seems to have any major effect for my GTX1070. Turn shadows off, 100Fps, Flat 80, low 50, anything above that i hit 40 if its not busy. I hope it is a bug and they can fix it, but i accept the SC is a bigger model with more animations. But as soon as i "see" the SC a 60fps loss cant be right surely??

[Tinkickef]

Yes, but that's the issue, it's a bug only affecting some people regardless of their hardware, but not others. Sounds like it's going to be a tough one to crack. But let's hope not!

 

 

I started seeing performance drops on the ground right after 2.56 dropped. I still think its something to do with the new lighting.

[DUSTY]

I'm seeing a pretty huge hit my my system and setting on medium.

 

 

Anything but an empty deck is getting a bit unplayable.

[statrekmike]

Shadows setting is the only setting that seems to have any major effect for my GTX1070. Turn shadows off, 100Fps, Flat 80, low 50, anything above that i hit 40 if its not busy. I hope it is a bug and they can fix it, but i accept the SC is a bigger model with more animations. But as soon as i "see" the SC a 60fps loss cant be right surely??

 

This is my feeling as well. I can understand that it will perform in proportion to its level of detail in the same way that older modules with lower resolution cockpits (like the Huey) tend to run a bit better than newer modules with much more complex cockpits. Still, even then, it is not a big difference. Right now, the performance drop I am seeing doesn't really seem proportional to the added model/texture complexity. It is too drastic and to specific to the superstructure to be a simple matter of not having a good enough computer (as if a i7 6700k, 32 gigs of RAM, and a GTX 1070 shouldn't be good enough anyway).

 

Since shadow settings seem to have the biggest impact, I suspect that there is something going wrong in that department. Hopefully ED figures out a solution soon because as thing stand right now, the Supercarrier requires a significant, frankly unacceptable drop in settings in order to run even remotely well. This would be a bit more understandable if EVERYTHING else in the sim didn't run fantastic without dropping any settings at all.

 

I am sorry for being so harsh. It is just a bummer to wait for something only to find that you can't really enjoy it due to a rather odd and unexplained performance drop-off. I am hardly one of those people that freaks out when something runs at 55 FPS rather than 60. I tend to be pretty forgiving in that regard. That said, something is clearly happening that goes beyond not having a good enough system. There is some kind of bug or issue that is making the shadows so costly on the Supercarrier.

[Tepnox]

Can confirm, shadows (low/med/high) have about 30-40% gpu-load impact on my GPU (RTX2070 Super) on the SC when viewing the island. Needs fixing.

[imacken]

Same here. Shadows off is the only way to use SC in VR atm.

 

I’m sure things will improve.

[NineLine]

And here are some screenshots; first pics in the Album are with low shadows, the others are with flat shadows:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/66DuuiYZmV7vNCQX9

 

where are my shadows, when set to flat??????

 

Flat shadows do what they say, make them flat so the won't follow and rises in terrain and such, it probably sees the Carrier as raised off the ground, so your shadows are either gone or somewhere under or in the boat. The carrier isn't always flat as it does move even slightly.

[NineLine]

I really hope the solution doesn't just become "if you are experiencing massive FPS loss, turn off shadows" because DCS looks pretty bad without shadows (and flat shadows for that matter).

 

I don't really get how I could be a member of a minority here. My computer is not exactly a unusual build. I have a hard time believing that this is not a issue that effects everyone but perhaps having a very high-end computer helps brute force through the problem without much notice.

 

That being said, I have put a lot of money into upgrades as DCS has come along over the years but I am not plunking down $800+ on a high-end GPU just so that the Supercarrier and ONLY the Supercarrier can run as well as the rest of the sim. My GTX 1070 should be enough to not see such a drastic drop in performance.

 

Most likely it isn't shadows that are the issue, but rather shadows are helping you find enough power to make it reasonable. The Supercarrier has a lot more going on, how much they will be able to get you out of your 1070 we will have to see, but they are aware of FPS complaints right now.

[bad_turbulence]

Most likely it isn't shadows that are the issue, but rather shadows are helping you find enough power to make it reasonable. The Supercarrier has a lot more going on, how much they will be able to get you out of your 1070 we will have to see, but they are aware of FPS complaints right now.

thanks for your clear and concise information, very helpful. A quick question , i am trying to find the supercarrier missions in the F/A 18 and they are not there. The product is loaded as I see the Supercarrier ICON at startup. if you could link me to the proper forum area, i don't want to tie up this thread with novice questions and thanks again!!!!

[Minsky]

Most likely it isn't shadows that are the issue, but rather shadows are helping you find enough power to make it reasonable. The Supercarrier has a lot more going on, how much they will be able to get you out of your 1070 we will have to see, but they are aware of FPS complaints right now.

 

1070 is listed as the recommended GPU for the Supercarrier with "high graphics settings" (which means shadows on high).

 

Pure logic says that it's either your system requirements are misleading, or the Supercarrier is bugged/poorly optimized.

 

 

On my system, with shadows disabled, the Supercarrier is only 20% slower than Stennis, which is totally understandable because of the improved model, animations, textures etc.

 

After enabling shadows, with Stennis I see only a marginal 10% decrease in performance. But with the Supercarrier it's a whooping 54% hit.

 

So what exactly is "going on" under the Supercarrier's hood that makes some GPUs (but not CPUs) go crazy with 100% load and massive performance drop ONLY after enabling shadows?

[statrekmike]

Most likely it isn't shadows that are the issue, but rather shadows are helping you find enough power to make it reasonable. The Supercarrier has a lot more going on, how much they will be able to get you out of your 1070 we will have to see, but they are aware of FPS complaints right now.

 

I appreciate the direct response and I also appreciate the difficulty involved in striking a balance between visual fidelity and economical use of system resources.

 

That being said, I don't think it would be terribly wrong for me to presume that quite a few players are running 1060's, 1070's, and the like. It isn't like we are trying to squeeze high settings out of GTX 960's and 970's, the 10 series cards are still quite popular and capable. If the Supercarrier can't run with reasonable settings (as in, not turning off major effects like shadows or at least some low anti-aliasing settings) with a 1070, there is something wrong that needs to be fixed. Maybe there is some bug somewhere that is sucking up a lot of resources. Either way, the vibe I am getting here is that if we want to maintain the settings we can more than comfortably use in all other parts of the sim, we should expect to plunk down $500+ for a new video card. That seems kinda extreme to me. To be blunt, the Supercarrier isn't so visually elaborate as to justify the sudden framerate drop. Likewise, since the framerates only drop when you look at the superstructure, I suspect there is something going on with the graphics of that superstructure.

 

Outside of graphics, perhaps this is a issue not unlike what we saw when the Harrier first released and all the various targeting pod, DMT, and other sensor images were rendering at once even when the pages were not selected. It could be something along those lines where there is some sort of supercarrier feature that is hogging up resources even when it is not used.

 

Again, I really hate to be blunt but this massive performance drop seems like it is more due to some kind of bug than it is simply a matter of the Supercarrier being more resource intensive. As it stands, if someone wants to get as much out of the Supercarrier as they get out of DCS without it (in terms of graphics and performance), they will need a system that is better than even the recommended system requirements for "high" settings (outside of VR). This can't be intentional.

[Minsky]

i am trying to find the supercarrier missions in the F/A 18 and they are not there.

 

They're in the "Mission" menu - NOT in the "Instant Action":

 

[bad_turbulence]

They're in the "Mission" menu - NOT in the "Instant Action":

 

Under "Mission Qualification" right underneath "Mission Qualification - Defensive Systems" is "Mission Qualification - Takeoff and Navigation" and then lastly followed by "Mission Qualification - Valley Run" ,,, so it doesn't show them anywhere like on your choices. Do I have to have the Persian Gulf module to run Supercarrier?

Edited May 24, 2020 by bad_turbulence

[Minsky]

Do I have to have the Persian Gulf module to run Supercarrier?

 

There is another set of SC's missions down the list - for the Caucasus map.

Try running repair if you don't see them.

[speed-of-heat]

I get a huge GPU frametime spike when the plane on Cat 2 launches in the Cold start mission , even if i am not looking at it, there is a 3 to 5 second period when he is running his engines up to full power, i get it to a lesser extent on cat 1...as well

[imacken]

Most likely it isn't shadows that are the issue, but rather shadows are helping you find enough power to make it reasonable. The Supercarrier has a lot more going on, how much they will be able to get you out of your 1070 we will have to see, but they are aware of FPS complaints right now.

 

I hope this is resolved, as in VR SC is unusable for me with shadows on, and I have a 2080Ti. Everything is good on monitor or VR without shadows.

[speed-of-heat]

I agree, shadows off i get 45 FPS, shadows on , i get 30 FPS are certainly the symptoms Im seeing, on the super carrier mission Cold Start