[CORRECT AS IS] SLAM Discussion

[Vanguard]

Hi all,

 

I was just experimenting with the SLAM and have 2 questions up front,

 

1. It would seem the accuracy of the weapon is terrible without manual terminal guidance with the pod. IRL is it this poor? I have to imagine it should be quite accurate given that the pod is only effective up to about 40nm, while the missle, especially the upcoming ER variant has much more range. All that range would be useless if the missile required human input.

 

2. What use case makes this your personal go-to weapon over a JSOW, other than the obvious of a moving target at extremely long range?

 

3. Apologies if it's been discussed, I see (from https://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Harpoon.html): When Preplanned Mode is used, target coordinates, waypoints, terrain clearance settings and terminal trajectory options must be loaded into the missile prior to takeoff.

Anyone know if this functionality is coming to DCS? Or at least Infrared homing terminal guidance? I believe this is missing from the AGM-154C as well currently.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-154_Joint_Standoff_Weapon: The JSOW-C adds an infra-red seeker for terminal guidance)

 

The only doc I could find says this has the lower circular error of precision in the Navy, but doesn't say if that's due to the fancy guidance or pod, but again, given the ranges I would expect this to be used, the pod is useless...

 

Photo of target vs 4 impact points:

 

 

 

Thanks!

[Bunny Clark]

1. It's my understanding that, yes, the SLAM has mediocre accuracy without human guidance, and it was intended to be used primarily with a human providing terminal guidance. The SLAM-ER has a completely new guidance and targeting system and a better IIR seeker, so it should be quite a bit more accurate on its own without having to rely on human guidance.

 

2. The primary difference is the MITL guidance. Otherwise SLAM does have a better range at low and medium altitudes since it's powered. As for why JSOW seems to be a better weapon in almost every other way - it's a newer weapon by almost a decade.

 

3. That's a great question. I certainly hope we get better terminal guidance and targeting as PB/PP mode gets fleshed out. But I don't think ED has said much on the record about this.

[AvroLanc]

SLAM is a weapon that is absolutely reliant on man in the loop terminal guidance. It can’t be used any other way, it was just designed that way.

 

You have to remember that it was designed and developed in the late 80’s using tech from other missile developments. It had a GPS, I just don’t think it’s of sufficient accuracy to be used for the terminal phase. Maybe it’s not tightly integrated into flight control system and can only be good for the enroute phase. It was designed as a very accurate Man in the loop weapon and that’s what it is.

 

I don’t know whether the poor image quality we have will be improved. But again this might be the symptom of using the older Walleye datalink transmitter, from a weapon that has like a 12 nn range.....

 

The upcoming ER variant has more range, and most likely a better quality image/datalink. It’s still man in the loop though. The ATA (Automatic Target Acquisition) version has a IR seeker that can find its own target......think moving ships.....but we’re not getting it.

 

Remember SLAM was designed pre-JDAM. It’s another tool in the set that has specific uses IRL. Standoff, very good precision and real-time bomb damage assessment are the main reasons to use.

 

(JSOW C only uses its IR seeker to match a static scene with it’s pre planned target photo. It’s not capable of automatic target selection, TOO, man in the loop etc. )

[Vanguard]

Thank you both, I guess it is quite old tech. IRL I'm assuming the "man in the loop" could potentially be another unit, possibly on the ground closer to the action? I wish CA would get some love...

 

Looking forward to seeing if the ER variant makes it more useful in the current lineup.

[AvroLanc]

Thank you both, I guess it is quite old tech. IRL I'm assuming the "man in the loop" could potentially be another unit, possibly on the ground closer to the action? I wish CA would get some love...

 

Looking forward to seeing if the ER variant makes it more useful in the current lineup.

 

The Man in the loop would be your wingman potentially. It would be very common to have one aircraft as the shooter, and another in the flight as the guidance jet.

 

I don’t think a FAC type set up is appropriate or technically feasible with SLAM, the hardware is quite specific. Think of SLAM being used on night one of the war against high value critical targets. Think EW radars and communication nodes etc. Targets that must be destroyed in order for the rest of the package to get in.

 

In Iraqi Freedom, a total of 3 SLAM-ER were used versus thousands of JDAM/LGB.

[Bunny Clark]

I don’t know whether the poor image quality we have will be improved. But again this might be the symptom of using the older Walleye datalink transmitter, from a weapon that has like a 12 nn range.....

The E model SLAM literally uses a Walleye seeker head, so yah, it'll look the same as the Walleye.

[AvroLanc]

The E model SLAM literally uses a Walleye seeker head, so yah, it'll look the same as the Walleye.

 

Yep, the problem is...it’s actually understandably worse than the Walleye at any kind of standoff range that the SLAM can give. Walleye sensor/datalink picture is ok at 20nm but pretty crappy at 45nm.

[Swift.]

The E model SLAM literally uses a Walleye seeker head, so yah, it'll look the same as the Walleye.

 

Walleye DL

Maverick Seeker head

Harpoon body

Tomahawk Warhead

[pimp]

I didn't try out the SLAM when it was first introduced, but did the latest update that fixed the DDI's mess up the SLAM's video? I can barely see anything on the screen in order to slew the cursor on the target.

[Bunny Clark]

Walleye DL

Maverick Seeker head

Harpoon body

Tomahawk Warhead

 

Hmmmmm, FAS says "Walleye optical guidance system, and a Maverick data-link" but thinking about it, that doesn't make much sense ...

[fmedges]

I didn't try out the SLAM when it was first introduced, but did the latest update that fixed the DDI's mess up the SLAM's video? I can barely see anything on the screen in order to slew the cursor on the target.

 

That's how it's been since day 1.

[isotaan]

The SLAM came about in the pre-JDAM days. Think of it as a replacement of the Vietnam-era Walleye that complements other PGMs that the Navy was using at the time. Back then the Navy used the AGM-123 Skipper II, the Walleye, and other LGB kits. The Walleye's MITL offered the potential for a degree of standoff precision that one didn't get short of the Skipper while offering more range and without needing to maintain a laser on the target.

 

As one previous comment noted, the SLAM is like the JSOW- you use it to hit high-value targets on the first night of the war in order to break the enemy's C4ISR infrastructure. The SLAM wouldn't be used for CAS any more than you'd call down a Tomahawk for CAS.

[KLaFaille]

I didn't try out the SLAM when it was first introduced, but did the latest update that fixed the DDI's mess up the SLAM's video? I can barely see anything on the screen in order to slew the cursor on the target.

 

 

Yes. The dark seeker head images are a by product of the last patch. I believe it's been reported and acknowledged by ED.

[AstonMartinDBS]

Yes. The dark seeker head images are a by product of the last patch. I believe it's been reported and acknowledged by ED.

You're right, the dark sensor screen issue has been already reported: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=281595

[9thHunt]

The SLAM came about in the pre-JDAM days. Think of it as a replacement of the Vietnam-era Walleye that complements other PGMs that the Navy was using at the time. Back then the Navy used the AGM-123 Skipper II, the Walleye, and other LGB kits. The Walleye's MITL offered the potential for a degree of standoff precision that one didn't get short of the Skipper while offering more range and without needing to maintain a laser on the target.

 

As one previous comment noted, the SLAM is like the JSOW- you use it to hit high-value targets on the first night of the war in order to break the enemy's C4ISR infrastructure. The SLAM wouldn't be used for CAS any more than you'd call down a Tomahawk for CAS.

 

 

Yeah, it was originally cobbled together to give navy aircraft a better standoff attack capability during Desert Storm. The Skipper II was a glorified Paveway bomb with a rocket stuck on the end.

[pimp]

Yes. The dark seeker head images are a by product of the last patch. I believe it's been reported and acknowledged by ED.

 

You're right, the dark sensor screen issue has been already reported: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=281595

Great. Thanks for that info.

[Rissala]

@BIGNEWY
merge with this thread?

Right now we have 2 threads directly contradicting each other on the same subject.