DCS World - Strange FPS drop over trees/low to ground...HIGH SPEC SYSTEM

[PAWS]

Hello everyone! (devs, moderators & fellow sim aviators),

 

Right...where to begin...hmmm

 

Okay, I'll try my best to explain the situation because as of right now, I'm not convinced enough to continue with DCS World :/.

 

Firstly, let me begin with my (brand new) PC...here are the specs:

 

CPU:- Intel i9 10900 (coffee lake 2.8ghz - 5.2ghz with Turbo Boost enabled)

GPU:- GeForce RTX 2080 Super 8gb OC (Windforce)

RAM:- Corsair Vengeance PRO RGB (@3200mhz)

Motherboard:- ASUS PRIME Z490-P (1208 - Latest bios)

CPU Cooler:- Corsair H100i PRO XT (RGB)

CASE:- Corsair 465x RGB (Black)

SSD:- (x2) WD 250gb

HDD:- (x1) 1TB - storage drive

 

 

Now, the main purpose of this PC was specifically for the purpose of returning to flight simulation (military mainly), hence DCS World.

 

So, I build my PC and have everything up and running superbly; testing other simulation titles based on motor racing, as I have an interest in this too...And I may add, all simulations running all on highest settings with no fps drops.

 

I will also add that I have always ran my simulation software with a resolution of 1020x1080 @60fps (VSYNC) - I also (fingers crossed), shall be using the same in DCS.

 

 

So...getting to the issue...

 

I download and install DCS on the fresh SSD and as a (template), I used Spudknockers (YouTube) graphics settings as his PC specifications are close to my own.

I used his as from his videos, it is clear he has a good stable high quality setup, with fps constantly high with minimal stuttering.

 

I just need to interject here:

As I am in the process of awaiting delivery of:

Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS

Thrustmaster F/A-18A (grip add-on)

Logitech S Rudder pedals

TrackIR5 (with Pro-Clip)...

I have been using the keyboard and flying the SU-25 on the Caucasus map; quite competently without crashing.

 

Anyway, the issue is this...

With Spudknockers graphics settings (but at 1920x1080 @60fps vsync), the fps has been stable for the most part; little to no stuttering issues at all...HOWEVER...

 

Whenever I fly over large areas of trees (specifically), and in a 45 - 80 degree banked turn, if I use the numpad to look towards the ground (trees), the fps has drops to around 38fps/45fps or in the low 50s...? why?

 

With the near same specifications of PC to that of Spudknockers (along with graphics settings), there is no reason for this performance drop!.

 

I have been viewing videos and scouring the internet on forums tryingto find a solution to the issue...for example;

A: One solution stated to delete the cache in the fxo folder and metashaders folder respectively (no noticeable effect).

B: Another was to immediately press ALT + ENTER once in cockpit (I did notice a higher framerate) - Enabling Full Screen apparently.

C: To turn off Civilian traffic, turn off MSAA & SSAA, then use NVIDIA Control Panel to enable these. This appeared to not enable anything, and so I reverted to DCS settings.

 

 

The point being here is; I am not running DCS in high resolution nor framerate, as I personally don't feel the need to go higher...its what I am used to. (I'll also add that I am using an HDMI cable and with my 40inch monitor, only allows 60hz)...hence VSYNC @60fps.

 

I will provide any further details if required. I simply am baffled as to what is the issue here!.

 

Additionally, I am using the non Steam version (v2.5.6). I also read in the forum that others have had the same issues; although the solution didn't materialise.

One last note; If however I am say above 1000ft, I haven't noticed any fps issues while conducting the same test. It gets increasingly worse the lower i fly over trees specifically.

 

I am desperate for advice as I was so looking forward to purchasing some modules I have in mind, but as of this moment, I'm at a loss whether to continue with DCS World and return the purchases I've made :(.

 

Please can someone help!

 

Thank you for your time everyone!

Edited September 26, 2020 by PAWS

[Worrazen]

Yes, the closer you get to the ground the more details/clutter/trees the game will render, that's normal and expected.

 

Unfortunately the effect may be exaggerated, draw calls is one (CPU stuff), but partially due to DCS not appearing to support occlussion culling, that means, but so far I haven't tested this specific case (should still apply AFAIK), that all the trees that get created according to your flying altitude and graphics settings have to be rendered even if they're occluded behind the first line of trees which you can see, wasting a lot of GPU resources.

 

There is a chance it may be impacting you a lot more than others, in which case it's some kind of an extra bug that could be alleviated, but don't expect miracles.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Worrazen

[Svsmokey]

Welcome to the forum ! Windows system power setting to high performance ? Windows game mode off ? Nvidea power management to high performance ? How about a screenshot of your DCS settings ? While DCS is far from optimised , you should be experiencing much better performance than you're getting . I had better with my old system with an i5-6500 and a 1060 3gb gpu . So don't despair , we'll get you there !

[PAWS]

Thanks for the details! I think it's just a learning curve for each individual to reach their desired stability...

 

I tried something different today;

I set some settings in DCS, then exited the sim and deleted the fxo/metashaders2 file cache.

Once I had done that and conducted another test, the fps did improve but strangely it induced sporadic stuttering...:/

 

I am going to check the affinity tomorrow; along with a few other bits of advice.

 

Again, what I find baffling the most is that I'm not running the sim in high resolution, nor high fps (sync @60).

I also noticed in the graphics.lua file something odd...

 

The fps was set to: 180max

And sync (or sync) to: false

 

Very strange??? - should I edit those...?

[PAWS]

Welcome to the forum ! Windows system power setting to high performance ? Windows game mode off ? Nvidea power management to high performance ? How about a screenshot of your DCS settings ? While DCS is far from optimised , you should be experiencing much better performance than you're getting . I had better with my old system with an i5-6500 and a 1060 3gb gpu . So don't despair , we'll get you there !

 

Thanks for the advice!

I have the windows power setting at 'balanced' currently; I haven't altered any Nvidia settings in control panel yet also.

 

All these I will try though! ;).

 

Like I stated before; the settings within DCS are same to Spudknockers on YouTube (he did a recent graphics tutorial, so I took a screenshot and applied them)...but not getting similar performance.

 

However, the frame drops only occur below 800ft while looking directly to the side down at the trees...

 

EDIT: I also do not have game mode enabled.

[Paganus]

Changing terrain object shadows from default to flat will buy you a bunch of low level frames. You lose some long shadows when the sun is low, but trade off might be worth it.

[PAWS]

Changing terrain object shadows from default to flat will buy you a bunch of low level frames. You lose some long shadows when the sun is low, but trade off might be worth it.

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

I did try that and you are right; framerate does improve and it's always an option.

My goal really is to try and get the highest fidelity possible with the resources i have and, given the fact that i am using vsync @60fps (and with 1920x1080), there shouldn't be any issues to be honest, and it is baffling me why this should happen!.

 

It would be appreciated to try and have some 'official' support from the dev team or moderators that have a deep understanding of what is going on here.

 

I know my system is more than capable!.

[PAWS]

Here i have attached images of my settings at current:

 

EDIT: I have changed my system power settings to 'High Performance Mode' also.

[PAWS]

I wonder if i change the 'Preload Radius' to full (150000 i believe); maybe that will reduce stutter as if i have the power ability to pre render the distance, then i assume it should reduce stutter...

[Flappie]

Hi PAWS, you should not experience any stutter with your rig. Some antivirus / anti-malware such as MBAM and BitDefender can cause DCS stutters. MSI Dragon Center can also cause such issues.

 

Do you have one of these installed?

[javelina1]

Hi PAWS, you should not experience any stutter with your rig. Some antivirus / anti-malware such as MBAM and BitDefender can cause DCS stutters. MSI Dragon Center can also cause such issues.

 

Do you have one of these installed?

Indeed, set your AV to have an exception for your DCS install. Both where the application is installed, and I also set it for the ../saved games/DCS install too. it does help.

[Taz1004]

Use MSAA. Not SSAA.

If you get better fps by reducing shadow, then it's more likely an optimization issue.

And one setting does not always apply to another.

Try fast or half vsync.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Taz1004

[PAWS]

Hi PAWS, you should not experience any stutter with your rig. Some antivirus / anti-malware such as MBAM and BitDefender can cause DCS stutters. MSI Dragon Center can also cause such issues.

 

Do you have one of these installed?

 

Hello @Flappie,

 

In regards to anti-virus, I do have Kaspersky Internet Security installed; however, I have tried running the sim without it running and it didn't make any difference...

 

BitDefender...hmmm, I'm not sure what that is specifically but, I have heard of it; is it part of Windows 10 along with MBAM...?

 

I have been busy today trying all sorts of different methods...

A few things I have narrowed down which cause significant frame rate issues are MSAA, SSAA and SSLR; Also, having 'tree visibility' up to 100 has the dame effect - I tested this and found that performance issues begin around 50 (around 50, the fps drops to 56 / 60 it drops another 2-4 frames...and so on).

 

I have found that disabling the MSAA & SSAA/SSLR and using Nvidia Control Panel has worked wonders!

HOWEVER...it comes at a price in terms of 'jaggies' - The performance though is completely stable! ;)

[PAWS]

Thanks for the tips @javelina1 - will definitely try this! ;)

[PAWS]

Use MSAA. Not SSAA.

If you get better fps by reducing shadow, then it's more likely an optimization issue.

And one setting does not always apply to another.

Try fast or half vsync.

 

I have tried this:-

 

If I set MSAA on only (x2 or x4), the image isn't sharp enough.

If I set SSAA on (x1.5 or x2), it's a lot crisper and is fine...However...

 

I don't use both at the same time; even separately the performance is comparable to the other.

 

Again, these fps issues only begin at 800ft over trees and directly looking at them; the lower I fly the worse the frame rate gets...

 

The lowest it has been (on the Caucasus map), has been around 32fps - running with the settings in the uploaded image (1920x1080 @60fps vsync) 40inch monitor.

[PAWS]

Again...

I am trying to achieve a good stable 60fps on sync without drops and minimal stutter.

 

It is absolutely absurd how 'tree's can effect performance so drastically, on a system that in theory, should be capable of 60fps at minimum!...You could argue that I would rarely be at treetop height when flying Anyway, but that's not the point here :/

 

I've been scouring these forums and others; viewing YouTube videos and yet after all the differing options I've tried, the most stable has been to use Nvidias CP options...

My question is why do we have to resort to using alternative methods other than the in-game options/settings???

[Svsmokey]

Looks like a lot of room for tweaking in DCS settings .

(1) at 1080p , try textures to "low" . Betcha you won't be able to tell the difference -especially terrain .

(2) heat blur to "off"

(3) trees should be 70% or less - just enough to avoid "popup" effect . Remember , every tree draws a shadow !

(4) terrain shadows "flat" & lower cockpit to "low" or "medium"

(5) chimney smoke to "1" Particle effects are also resource intensive .

 

I would also lose "cockpit global illumination" and "lens effects" and max the preload radius .

Once you have everything running smoothly , you should be enabled to return all Nvidea settings to default (except "high performance") and run 1.5 SSAA and 2xMSAA in DCS settings .

 

You will get a lot of conflicting advice regarding specific settings , but the general idea is to start low and gradually increment the settings most important to you .

Edited September 27, 2020 by Svsmokey

[Taz1004]

Try with this mod. Use the low version at the bottom.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=282421

 

If you get better fps with this mod, at least you'd know the problem is trees or something else.

 

Default trees actually do use unnecessarily large textures.

[PAWS]

Looks like a lot of room for tweaking in DCS settings .

(1) at 1080p , try textures to "low" . Betcha you won't be able to tell the difference -especially terrain .

(2) heat blur to "off"

(3) trees should be 70% or less - just enough to avoid "popup" effect . Remember , every tree draws a shadow !

(4) terrain shadows "flat" & lower cockpit to "low" or "medium"

(5) chimney smoke to "1" Particle effects are also resource intensive .

 

I would also lose "cockpit global illumination" and "lens effects" and max the preload radius .

Once you have everything running smoothly , you should be enabled to return all Nvidea settings to default (except "high performance") and run 1.5 SSAA and 2xMSAA in DCS settings .

 

You will get a lot of conflicting advice regarding specific settings , but the general idea is to start low and gradually increment the settings most important to you .

 

Roger @Svsmokey,

 

These are all good suggestions and i will try certain settings out most likely ;).

However, there are so many conflicting advice that it becomes difficult to try everyone's settings/solutions.

 

I set my settings at Spudknockers initially as his system is near(ish) in spec to my own; Well, in fact you would argue that my specs are more powerful...the only difference being is the gfx card, which given the reports and reviews/tests i've viewed, shows not much of a gain from the Super to the Ti!.

 

In fact, some reviewers and tests show the RTX 2080 Super to be more powerful overall...but again, i only have their word for it ;).

 

Here below are Spudknockers settings that i screenshot from the said video, for reference:

 

So my question is: If my system in comparison with Spudknockers, then why at my resolution and 60fps(vsync), why is my performance worse?

[PAWS]

Additionally, i have thought that for video editing purposes; maybe he reduces his settings...

 

I have heard of youtubers' doing this for rendering purposes of videos; but again, we have no confirmation of this.

 

There is just no way with my spec, my performance should be this crazy! - NOTE: However, i must stress that above 1000ft, non of the issues with fps/stutter appear whatsoever; below 1000ft and lower, they become progressively worse.

[PAWS]

Try with this mod. Use the low version at the bottom.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=282421

 

If you get better fps with this mod, at least you'd know the problem is trees or something else.

 

Default trees actually do use unnecessarily large textures.

 

I have just downloaded this mod and will try this immediately...thanks for the details ;)

I'll give it a whirl and report my findings...

 

Be back soon!

[Flappie]

@PAWS: MBAM and BitDefender are not part of Windows. You should try adding your DCS main folders as exceptions in Kaspersky.

 

If you want to be sure DCS is not bothered by another program, there is a simple test:

 

1. Press Windows key, type "msconfig" and press Enter.
   
2. In the General tab, tick "Diagnostic startup" and click "Apply" (you will see some other boxes get ticked, it's OK).
   
3. Click OK and choose to restart your computer.
   
4. Log into Windows as usual.
   
5. Launch DCS. You will get several error messages since your PC network is disabled. Just click OK until you see DCS main menu.
   
6. Fly the Su-25T in an instant action mission and see if you experience any stutter.
   

Once you're done with testing, just open "msconfig", tick "Normal startup", click OK and restart your system.

 

After the reboot, everything will be back to normal. Then come back and tell us if you've experienced something completely different in terms of performance and stutters.

[PAWS]

@PAWS: MBAM and BitDefender are not part of Windows. You should try adding your DCS main folders as exceptions in Kaspersky.

 

If you want to be sure DCS is not bothered by another program, there is a simple test:

 

1. Press Windows key, type "msconfig" and press Enter.
   
2. In the General tab, tick "Diagnostic startup" and click "Apply" (you will see some other boxes get ticked, it's OK).
   
3. Click OK and choose to restart your computer.
   
4. Log into Windows as usual.
   
5. Launch DCS. You will get several error messages since your PC network is disabled. Just click OK until you see DCS main menu.
   
6. Fly the Su-25T in an instant action mission and see if you experience any stutter.
   

Once you're done with testing, just open "msconfig", tick "Normal startup", click OK and restart your system.

 

After the reboot, everything will be back to normal. Then come back and tell us if you've experienced something completely different in terms of performance and stutters.

 

Right thanks for that @Flappie....will do immediately! ;)

Be back shortly...

[PAWS]

Right...just a quick update before i test @Flappie suggestion...

 

I have just done a quick test; One with using the 'default' tree textures, and one using the tree mod by @Taz1004.

 

I am afraid to say that using either didn't produce any differing results :(

They were both used with the same settings and over the same scenario.

I have attached a couple of screens: They show my settings used with both tests and using the MSI Afterburner to show usage.

 

Also, i might add, when the fps was at the lowest(30fps); when in the settings and then reducing the trees visibility slider, it displayed in real-time the fps i was getting - So for example; from 30fps @85% trees visibility to 60fps @30 trees visibility...

 

Obviously, 'tree visibility' has some impact; I say some impact because if i then turn off either MSAA or SSAA respectively, the tree visibility slider has no impact on performance, whether at 30 or 100 on the slider setting!.

 

Screens:

[PAWS]

@PAWS: MBAM and BitDefender are not part of Windows. You should try adding your DCS main folders as exceptions in Kaspersky.

 

If you want to be sure DCS is not bothered by another program, there is a simple test:

 

1. Press Windows key, type "msconfig" and press Enter.
   
2. In the General tab, tick "Diagnostic startup" and click "Apply" (you will see some other boxes get ticked, it's OK).
   
3. Click OK and choose to restart your computer.
   
4. Log into Windows as usual.
   
5. Launch DCS. You will get several error messages since your PC network is disabled. Just click OK until you see DCS main menu.
   
6. Fly the Su-25T in an instant action mission and see if you experience any stutter.
   

Once you're done with testing, just open "msconfig", tick "Normal startup", click OK and restart your system.

 

After the reboot, everything will be back to normal. Then come back and tell us if you've experienced something completely different in terms of performance and stutters.

 

Okay @Flappie,

 

I conducted the test as instructed; everything as you described i did to the letter and subsequently, the test performed in just the same way :(

 

The settings were as they were and i changed nothing.

 

In my honest opinion, i honestly believe it has to do with the MSAA or SSAA respectively.

The reason i state this is because, i have conducted every setting change, variations in texture quality etc and for the most part, the performance stays the same (this is with either MSAA or SSAA enabled).

 

I try not to use both at the same time; If you look in the DCS manual, it actually states to NOT use both at the same time. Even so, in using both at the same time as per Spudknockers' settings, the performance isn't noticable anyway...so i am not sure why they instruct you to only use one at a time! :/.

 

Not sure how to proceed...