[NEED TRACK REPLAY]Entering waypoints manually produce incorrect coordinates

[Hammer1-1]

I am inputting waypoints manually, and this is the method I am using:

Menu/HSI/Data/scroll to empty waypoint

 

 

In the training mission startup, I am parked at the ramp without moving aircraft, aircraft was fully aligned before inputs placed into the HSI. I used the dead center of the weapons range at roughly 6.3 miles away from the airport. Exact coordinates provided by the F10 map was N41.50.31, E41.47.52, Elevation 33'. The computer spits out the created waypoint as N41.50.31, E41.47.52, grid 37T GG 318356, elev 33'. The distance is measured at 6.8. If I were to put rounds on these coordinates, I would very likely hit a building and not a target.

 

 

Give the video a few minutes to publish before beating me to death over it.

 

[imacken]

Sorry, but for me at least, the video is such low res - 360p - that I can't actually make out what is going on.

[Hammer1-1]

Sorry, but for me at least, the video is such low res - 360p - that I can't actually make out what is going on.

I just uploaded it literally 5 minutes ago, again PLEASE dont ding me on it until youtube does its thing. Itll eventually be 1440p in about 20 minutes.

[imacken]

Ah ok, patience is a great virtue. I'll practice some!

[BIGNEWY]

Hi

 

Currently precision is about 100m we do have work being done on PRECISE and GRID Coordinate Entry which will help. Once it is ready we will let you know.

 

Please always attach a track replay showing the issue when reporting.

 

thanks

[QuiGon]

You're still in alignment mode and the coordinates shown on the HSI main page during alignment are those of your start position, where you perform your alignment on (WP0). So they are not (and should not be) the coordinates you entered for WP4. It's all correct.

Edited October 15, 2020 by QuiGon

[Hammer1-1]

You're still in alignment mode and the coordinates shown on the HSI main page during alignment are those of your start position, where you perform your alignment on (WP0). So they are not (and should not be) the coordinates you entered for WP4. It's all correct.

Ok Ill try it again after placing it in nav mode after its done aligning. Ive been able to repeat this many times, so Ill place a track of exactly this after I try your method and see if its correct or not. I dont think it will be though...

Edit: nope, those were the direct coordinates of my target, and the computer corrected input was a half mile out from my input waypoint...which sat 6.8 miles away from my aircraft. Whats not shown in the video are the previous 4 waypoints of the exact same coordinates i tried placing with the exact same correction from the computer.

 

 

 

Now that I have tried doing it your method by allowing the aircraft the full 10 minute ground alignment, it is still a significant way off from my designated waypoint. Granted it IS more accurate than prior, but not that much more.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Hammer1-1

[Hammer1-1]

Hi

 

Currently precision is about 100m we do have work being done on PRECISE and GRID Coordinate Entry which will help. Once it is ready we will let you know.

 

Please always attach a track replay showing the issue when reporting.

 

thanks

100m doesnt translate to almost a half mile off...

[BIGNEWY]

100m doesnt translate to almost a half mile off...

 

Which is why I have asked for a track replay.

 

thanks

[Harker]

It seems that the F10 map is giving you coordinates in DD*MM'SS", while your HSI is in DD*MM.mm. That would explain the discrepancy.

 

You can change the LL coordinate system between DD*MM'SS(ss)" and DD*MM.mm(mm)' from the HSI>DATA>A/C sub-page, it should be the right bottom option. The values in () are used if you change your coordinate display and input to Precise, by boxing PRECISE in the WYPT sub-page.

[Hammer1-1]

It seems that the F10 map is giving you coordinates in DD*MM'SS", while your HSI is in DD*MM.mm. That would explain the discrepancy.

Can you explain?

[randomTOTEN]

Can you explain?

Decimals are base 100.

Seconds are base 60.

[Harker]

Can you explain?

Your HSI LatLong coordinate format is in Degrees, Minutes, Decimal minutes (Degree, Minute, minute -DMM). The F10 map in your video is in Degrees, Minutes, Seconds (DMS). That creates a discrepancy.

 

A degree minute has 60 seconds.

 

As an example, take 41*30.50'. 41 degrees and 30+1/2 minutes. The same coordinates in DD*MM'SS" would be 41*30'30".

 

So, the center of the X runway (DMS: N41*50'31", E41*47'52") is N41*50.52', E41*47.87' in DMM.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Harker

[Hammer1-1]

Your HSI LatLong coordinate format is in Degrees, Minutes, Decimal minutes (Degree, Minute, minute -DMM). The F10 map in your video is in Degrees, Minutes, Seconds (DMS). That creates a discrepancy.

 

A degree minute has 60 seconds.

 

As an example, take 41*30.50'. 41 degrees and 30+1/2 minutes. The same coordinates in DD*MM'SS" would be 41*30'30".

 

So, the center of the X runway (DMS: N41*50'31", E41*47'52") is N41*50.52', E41*47.87' in DMM.

Ok, I will look further into this, I had no idea about that! I would have never learned this had I asked, so when I get a chance Ill give this a shot and report back.

[Tholozor]

You can also change the coordinate format in the jet by going to the HSI -> DATA -> A/C subpage, there's an OSB on the right-hand side to switch formats.

[imacken]

You can also change the coordinate format in the jet by going to the HSI -> DATA -> A/C subpage, there's an OSB on the right-hand side to switch formats.

 

Thank you. I didn't know that. I can chuck my calculator away now!

[Svend_Dellepude]

L_ALT+y in F10 view will change the format of the F10 map, if I'm not mistaken.

[sideshow]

Waypoint entry is broken for me too. Next time I fly I'll grab a track. But basically set a static object on the map. In game click on the object, and type it's coordinates in as a waypoint. When you hit WPDSG, the Coords listed in the FLIR will be the same, but the camera is looking off somewhere else. If you manually slew the FLIR over the static object, the coords displayed don't match what F-10 is saying. This has created issues with a SLAM mission I created, and have flown dozens of times in the past. Now using TOO mode, with WPDSG set, causes the missiles to not fly anywhere near the static object I used as a target. Everytime they fly to the same point, about a mile or so south of the target. I also tried setting a precise waypoint and still have the same issue.

[Honey]

I've been fiddling with JSOW's for the last couple of days (looks like I've picked a good time to study that subject lol) and I ran into the same issue. Been reading and watching everything on the subject trying to figure out why JSOW's in PP mode miss targets by at least half a mile. Also, wanna add that bombs never open, they just fly past targets and drive straight into the ground.

 

The latest test I've done:

TOO + waypoint designate (waypoints created in the editor, on the targets, ground level) = hit.

TOO + TPOD = 2 hit, 2 overshot and hit the ground (maybe more testing needed, maybe the same bug).

PP + manual coordinates (same targets created in the editor) = overshot by at least half a mile, bombs never open, drive into the ground.

 

F-18's coordinates format set to match F10's.

Tried both magnetic and true heading. True is the right one, but bombs still overshoot.

 

Also, before that tried creating waypoints manually (in precise mode) and using them in TOO + designate. That also resulted in a miss.

[sideshow]

Here's a track of my last mission.

LastMissionTrack.trk

[Hammer1-1]

I've been fiddling with JSOW's for the last couple of days (looks like I've picked a good time to study that subject lol) and I ran into the same issue. Been reading and watching everything on the subject trying to figure out why JSOW's in PP mode miss targets by at least half a mile. Also, wanna add that bombs never open, they just fly past targets and drive straight into the ground.

 

Think you are using the wrong JSOW. The C version IIRC is the bunker buster, the A is the bomblet version. I may have that backwards.

[Honey]

 

Think you are using the wrong JSOW. The C version IIRC is the bunker buster, the A is the bomblet version. I may have that backwards.

 

You have it forwards, but still, negative. Never used a C version, all A's. There is just something wrong with manually entered coords and elevation, that makes bombs overshoot and fly below ground level. Likely C's gonna behave the same in such circumstances.

 

Also, wanna add that in all tests in these 3 or 4 days I managed to hit with like 2 of 8 bombs targets that were at about 15 miles. This requires further testing, but it could be that error accumulates with distance.

[maxTRX]

 

You have it forwards, but still, negative. Never used a C version, all A's. There is just something wrong with manually entered coords and elevation, that makes bombs overshoot and fly below ground level. Likely C's gonna behave the same in such circumstances.

 

Also, wanna add that in all tests in these 3 or 4 days I managed to hit with like 2 of 8 bombs targets that were at about 15 miles. This requires further testing, but it could be that error accumulates with distance.

 

C works great every time. A's are a mess... unless, there's a way to configure them that I'm not aware of.

[Svend_Dellepude]

Did you set the fuse correct? Should be VT.

[maxTRX]

Did you set the fuse correct? Should be VT.

 

I don't see it. There's 'Inst' and delay. I assumed all this stuff is pre-set by default. Well, I do see 'HT' option under TOO/UFC for terminal setting but that didn't make any difference.