The Legit Discussion for the D Model Tomcat

[Northstar98]

 

Be nice if we had early/late versions of alot of planes.

Mmhmm, true that, would solve the era consistency problem for one thing :music_whistling:

[TLTeo]

To be fair, it's quite a bit easier for the versions of the Tomcat HB picked. The difference between the early and late block Vipers for example is much larger.

[sparrow88]

• 2 USN F-14As (an early and a late one, with the late one coming in 4 days time)
  
• 1 IRIAF F-14A
  

 

I have a feeling that the difference between these is so small checkboxes in the ME could handle them just as well.

[Northstar98]

 

I have a feeling that the difference between these is so small checkboxes in the ME could handle them just as well.

 

The main difference between early and late (AFAIK) is the RWR.

 

Even so, it is still a first to have an aircraft with appropriate variants for certain decades.

 

[Hummingbird]

Main reason I'd want the F-14D would be for:

1. Digital flight control system (DFCS) for near carefree handling (no more need to manually apply rudder for roll at high AoA , FCS does that for you etc)

2. SparrowHawk HUD

 

 

On the DFCS:

"The Navy decided to incorporate the GEC Marconi Digital Flight Control System (DFCS) into all F-14 aircraft to significantly improve flight safety. The system is designed to protect aviators against unrecoverable flat spins and carrier landing mishaps. DFCS also incorporates a lateral stick-to-rudder interconnect designed to improve less than desirable flying qualities in the powered approach configuration. Pilots agree that with the DFCS the Tomcat is more maneuverable and has crisp response to pilot control inputs. The new system should improve performance and safety during carrier landings. This modification affects 211 active duty and 16 reserve F-14 aircraft. The Foreign Comparative Test (FCT) demonstrated that DFCS drastically decreases the chance of entering out-of-control flight and improves the F-14's ability to recover, if a spin is entered. Departure from controlled flight has been a primary causal factor in 35 F-14 mishaps. Also significant is its ability to improve carrier approach line-up control addressing a problem often cited as a contributing factor in carrier landing mishaps. The incorporation of DFCS increases safety, both during "edge-of-the-envelope" maneuvering flight and carrier landings.

 

The new the Digital Flight Control System [DFCS] provides enhanced maneuverability for the F-14. The DFCS control panel replaces the current AFCS panel in the front cockpit, the analog system in use since the aircraft's inception. It contains the modified SAS switches, and also displays maintenance codes for system failures identified during IBIT and in flight. The DFCS system has lived up to its promise of enhanced controllability and performance in the high AOA regimes and in the landing configuration. However, the structural issue raised by the enhanced roll rates achievable with the DFCS is a potential factor affecting the crucial problem of F-14 fatigue life."

[Top Jockey]

 

Absolutely agreed and haven't we got like 4 Tomcats already?

• 2 USN F-14As (an early and a late one, with the late one coming in 4 days time)
  
• 1 IRIAF F-14A
  
• 1 USN F-14B
  

This is kind of a first for an aircraft in DCS in that we have a comprehensive set of variants spanning multiple decades.

 

Hello,

 

Seems I've missed something:

 

Two different versions of USN F-14A ?

I thought we were going to get just one -A version of the USN.

 

From what operating years respectively ?

 

[The_Tau]

 

Hello,

 

Seems I've missed something:

 

Two different versions of USN F-14A ?

I thought we were going to get just one -A version of the USN.

 

From what operating years respectively ?

 

Main difference between those would be RWR. 'Late' with similar to -B version, and 'Early' with Vietnam era style RWR

something like this

 

[Northstar98]

 

Hello,

 

Seems I've missed something:

 

Two different versions of USN F-14A ?

I thought we were going to get just one -A version of the USN.

 

From what operating years respectively ?

 

From the DCS: F-14 Development Update - Enter the -A!

 

• F-14A-95-GR: Early F-14A for IRIAF. These jets will have certain limitations and modifications, such as the lack of TCS and fuel pylons.
  
• F-14A-135-GR (Early): This will be an earlier representation of the F-14A, equipped with the ALR-45 RWR and will also come with a number of minor variations such as early gun vents, alternate de-fog systems, and other minor differences between late and early ALR-45 equipped F-14A’s.
  
• F-14A-135-GR (Late): This version represents a later, ALR-67 equipped F-14A.
  

 

So yeah, 2 USN As and 1 IRIAF A, plus the USN B

 

I imagine the early A will be late 70s, late one probably 80s, the B is early 90s, so good mid-to-late Cold War coverage.

 

[Top Jockey]

 

From the DCS: F-14 Development Update - Enter the -A!

 

Originally posted by Cobra847 View Post

• F-14A-95-GR: Early F-14A for IRIAF. These jets will have certain limitations and modifications, such as the lack of TCS and fuel pylons.
  
• F-14A-135-GR (Early): This will be an earlier representation of the F-14A, equipped with the ALR-45 RWR and will also come with a number of minor variations such as early gun vents, alternate de-fog systems, and other minor differences between late and early ALR-45 equipped F-14A’s.
  
• F-14A-135-GR (Late): This version represents a later, ALR-67 equipped F-14A.
  

 

Now I see, didn't read it closely before.

 

Great news, thank you !

[DarksydeRob]

I guess it was that time again for this question to be brought up again on the forum. They said time and time again they cant model properly due to the embargo and systems from it still being classified. If they could do it , we would probably get it. Maybe in future we will be able to get it once Iran finally get rid of their F14 fleet.

[Skysurfer]

Main reason I'd want the F-14D would be for:

1. Digital flight control system (DFCS) for near carefree handling (no more need to manually apply rudder for roll at high AoA , FCS does that for you etc)

2. SparrowHawk HUD

 

 

On the DFCS:

"The Navy decided to incorporate the GEC Marconi Digital Flight Control System (DFCS) into all F-14 aircraft to significantly improve flight safety. The system is designed to protect aviators against unrecoverable flat spins and carrier landing mishaps. DFCS also incorporates a lateral stick-to-rudder interconnect designed to improve less than desirable flying qualities in the powered approach configuration. Pilots agree that with the DFCS the Tomcat is more maneuverable and has crisp response to pilot control inputs. The new system should improve performance and safety during carrier landings. This modification affects 211 active duty and 16 reserve F-14 aircraft. The Foreign Comparative Test (FCT) demonstrated that DFCS drastically decreases the chance of entering out-of-control flight and improves the F-14's ability to recover, if a spin is entered. Departure from controlled flight has been a primary causal factor in 35 F-14 mishaps. Also significant is its ability to improve carrier approach line-up control addressing a problem often cited as a contributing factor in carrier landing mishaps. The incorporation of DFCS increases safety, both during "edge-of-the-envelope" maneuvering flight and carrier landings.

 

The new the Digital Flight Control System [DFCS] provides enhanced maneuverability for the F-14. The DFCS control panel replaces the current AFCS panel in the front cockpit, the analog system in use since the aircraft's inception. It contains the modified SAS switches, and also displays maintenance codes for system failures identified during IBIT and in flight. The DFCS system has lived up to its promise of enhanced controllability and performance in the high AOA regimes and in the landing configuration. However, the structural issue raised by the enhanced roll rates achievable with the DFCS is a potential factor affecting the crucial problem of F-14 fatigue life."

 

Late -A's and -B's also had DFCS. The Sparrowhawk was a B(U) thing and the D had it's own, different HUD, can't remember what is was called exactly right now though. DFCS also isnt like fly by wire, it's simply digital processing and inputs between the regular SAS channels and inputs and the flight control surfaces, aleviating some of the more nasty and undesired flight characteristics. It does not limit G's and apply rudder inputs at high AOA for you though. I could see a B(U) and DFCS A, both with the PTID being possible but that is entirely up to Heatblur and it wouldn't really provide any significant advantages or features to the tomcat apart from maybe JDAM capability on the B(U). The actual D model is almost an entirely different jet though, when it comes to systems and avionics.

[Hummingbird]

Oh I am aware of the DFCS benefits and like I said while it didn't provide truly carefree handling, lacking for example a G limiter as well as auto 1 G trim, it did make maneuvering the aircraft on the edge quite easy. The main benefit was that it removed the need for the pilot to manipulate the rudder pedals if he wanted to roll the aircraft at high AoA, with the stick-rudder interconnect he now simply applied side stick (a big no no with the old AFCS) like in an F-18 or F-16, which alone made it a big improvement for BFM.

[Top Jockey]

 

Main difference between those would be RWR. 'Late' with similar to -B version, and 'Early' with Vietnam era style RWR

something like this

 

I see, thank you for the insight.

 

I'm curious about the AIM-9 versions in the -A, and the respective HUD's symbology employment (or lack of it)... because part of it only appeared circa 1985.

[Southernbear]

Would be nice if the 135-GE early gets access to the AIM-9H and AIM-7E4...but HB has already said while they are working on trying to get them its still not confirmed.

[Northstar98]

Would be nice if the 135-GE early gets access to the AIM-9H and AIM-7E4...but HB has already said while they are working on trying to get them its still not confirmed.

 

Having a comprehensive set of sidewinders and Sparrows can't hurt, it's only future proofing for the Phantom and similar era assets (if either ever comes :cry:)

[Uxi]

Will hope after the next project (A-6?) they consider a follow on module with F-14B Upgrade and F-14D. I would happily buy that. Or even a patch with just F-14B Upgrade.

[turkeydriver]

You must understand that inclusion of the F-14B(U) and F-14D is not something HB codes casually. Its way more than getting cockpit displays to appear like they do on the PTID and MFDs and new HUD. HB doesn't want to do it unless they can code these items to work like they did in the jet as a system- to the greatest extent possible. There is no info in this regard available for the F-14B(U) and F-14D. They will not code a display with pretty colors as that is not what their company is about. It has to function as close as possible to the real thing. Therefore, NO POSSIBLE WAY to get the APG-71, IRST, or PTID in game. NADA, zilch, zippo....unless this information is released to the public. Not pictures of screens, but display information draw times and processing times of the sensor scans and what it can see at what range. How that other developer plans to do this with an Air Force equivalent jet is highly suspect IMHO.

 

They considered the F-14B(U) and F-14D full fidelity but they have tried and know it not to be possible so they wont tease you with the possibility.

[Spurts]

HB doesn't want to do it unless they can code these items to work like they did in the jet as a system- to the greatest extent possible.

 

And this is why they are the greatest

[Uxi]

(At the time I even bought NAS Miramar - TOPGUN scenario for it.)

 

I want a map like this as much as I want the F-14D. Landing on San Clemente island, etc.

[Top Jockey]

 

I want a map like this as much as I want the F-14D. Landing on San Clemente island, etc.

 

I understand you.

Let me just say: it was totally well worth the money.

 

As my attentions are focused on dcs nowadays I do not have fsx installed at the moment, but if had, the KNKX NAS Miramar / TOPGUN School scenario would certainly be installed also.

 

For those who appreciate the F-14 and TOPGUN icons stuff, it was outstanding:

- featured circa 1985 or 86;

- several squadron insignias inside and outside the repair hangars;

- fightertown; tomcat alley; etc, logos at the respective buildings;

- control tower realistic with the time it featured;

- briefing class chairs and desk at the famous Hangar N.2;

- there's even Maverick in is motorcycle near one of the runways !

[RustBelt]

 

Having a comprehensive set of sidewinders and Sparrows can't hurt, it's only future proofing for the Phantom and similar era assets (if either ever comes :cry:)

 

That's now on ED to provide. Current Doctrine is ED makes the munitions and the 3rd party applies them to their module. The goal I think is to make everything fully modular but we know how that goes.

[Northstar98]

 

That's now on ED to provide. Current Doctrine is ED makes the munitions and the 3rd party applies them to their module. The goal I think is to make everything fully modular but we know how that goes.

 

I agree they've got issues, but I've got hope they'll get fixed. I know that there's a bit of disparity between the assets and the weapons in terms of how they're implemented, their FM and even the asset themselves; if you look at EDs weapons, a lot of the newer ones are done to absolute perfection and are even fully animated; some (mostly from 3rd parties) are pretty decent but not fully animated; and some are long due an upgrade).

[Deadlift]

Just to be sure, I know its currently not doable, but one can dream. ;)

 

If it would be doable, I'd also be very happy if this is a separate model to the A/B and costs extra.

The level of detail and overall quality we got from heatblur by now just would make me want that model even more.

[Harlikwin]

 

That's now on ED to provide. Current Doctrine is ED makes the munitions and the 3rd party applies them to their module. The goal I think is to make everything fully modular but we know how that goes.

 

Pretty sure thats not actually the current doctrine. Both HB and Deka are working to get their missiles working with the ED API... So ED isn't doing "it".

[RustBelt]

It seems like It changes week to week with ED. Usually depending on who from ED is talking.