[EARLY ACCESS IS A LONG PROCESS]F-16C Forgotten about again

[S. Low]

No, not really. Though I just got the F-16. But that's kind of my point. I'm still collecting. I don't have infinite funds so when a sale comes along, provided I've budgeted enough, and I want the module, I pick it up. Then it takes me awhile to really learn the module and be able to apply it properly. Then because I simply cannot fit all of the realistic detail of every module in my brain at once, whenever I learn a new full fidelity module, another one slips completely out. So if I get tired of the F-16, I can either get a completely new module (like maybe the A-10, F-5, etc) or I can just revisit one I really like. Such as the F-18, or Mirage. I'm sure I'll have gripes at some point about the F-16, just like I've had with the F-14 at times, but ultimately I doubt I'll feel like ED is abandoning one of these flag-ship modules. They've committed to these products more than just about any other gaming company I've ever seen.

 

I really can't fathom this thought process, it's too short-sighted. No offense intended. But look at the product quality and offerings available within 3 years. Dates per Steam - In this time they've added the F-18, F-16, third party F-14, Persian Gulf map, Syria map, A-10 II, Blackshark II, third party Channel map, P-47, third party JF-17, Super Carrier, third party I-16, third party MiG-19P, Christen Eagle, Aviojet, Mig-29, Yak-52, Normandy map and assets, Viggen, Spitfire, Nevada map, M-2000, plus core updates, bug fixes, and on and on.

 

Edit: And the poster above me has been here for 16 years. Sixteen. YEARS. Surely you can step back and see the quality?

[BuzzU]

 

And the poster above me has been here for 16 years. Sixteen. YEARS. Surely you can step back and see the quality?

 

 

 

Where did you get that from my post?

 

 

[Blinky.ben]

The viper should have never been released in the initial state it was. At best it should only have ever been released in the state it is in now. So it got released a year too early

[Ziptie]

 

 

 

Where did you get that from my post?

 

 

Because it says your 'join date' below your user name, on the left side of the forum...... Hence the 16 years reference.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Ignition]

Avionics is where the viper needs work. Things like the cursor bullseye system, fleshing out the HSD, improvements to the DLZ indications (that may need ED to model the AMRAAM's HPRF vs MPRF), the implementation of multiple nets for the L16, and of course some DED pages.

 

Agree, these are so basic stuff. We are having problems in our group since it lacks simple stuff like bullseye to cursor.

The SPI bug is also very problematic, sometimes you can do CCRP and sometimes you can't because the SPI refuses to move.

The boresighting of the mavericks its also a problem since it doesn't align always and its the only plane who needs 5 minutes extra to calibrate the same weapons that others just shoot them straight away.

 

Yes you can CCIP and shoot the gun and rockets which are a joke for a lot of ground units, that works fine.

[Nealius]

Yes, we understand EA is a long process. The Huey has been incomplete (EGT damage not until maybe a year ago, still no multicrew) since 2013. But we were also assured that Viper development and Hornet development would not affect each other negatively, and this has proved to be very false.

[Ziptie]

The boresighting of the mavericks its also a problem since it doesn't align always and its the only plane who needs 5 minutes extra to calibrate the same weapons that others just shoot them straight away.

 

Not really. It takes approximately 3 minutes to cool down the seeker head on the IR Maverick for the F/A-18C, as well as the A-10C. While neither of those two aircraft have to boresight those weapons in relation to the TGP - they do not fire "straight away."

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

 

[TheBigTatanka]

Fun fact, A-10s can boresight their Mavs in flight on their element mates.

 

I'd assume that boresighting is coming for all Mav shooters.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

[Qiou87]

Fun fact, A-10s can boresight their Mavs in flight on their element mates.

 

I'd assume that boresighting is coming for all Mav shooters.

 

Generally speaking, I am assuming the implementation we are seeing on the Viper (like HARM's with search tables for HAS mode, or Mav boresighting) will also be coming to the Hornet, right? I have no real life experience of course, but the HARM on the Hornet in TOO feels too easy and simplified. I actually like this approach more: instead of trying to add as many features as possible, it seems what we are getting on the Viper is closer to the final implementation.

 

I've only owned the Viper for six months, but I've seen many improvements and features added to it. Software development takes time, I respect that. I certainly do not get the impression the Viper is left out ; it is just not in the final stages of development, like the Hornet, and ED did not commit to finish the jet in 2020 unlike the 18. I'd be happy if they finish most on the Hornet this year, and give the same focus on the 16 next year to give us a complete Viper by end of 2021.

[Hummingbird]

Flight model updates is what I'm waiting for, all these new weapons systems etc I couldn't care less about so long as the aircraft isn't performing as it should. STR below 0.45 M is still way too low, whilst ITR is too low in several regions and G onset rate is painfully slow.

[GT_Grifter]

We currently have two engineers full time on the Viper; one is refactoring the entire SPI system for the Viper and the other is finishing up the Maverick and adding POS mode for the HARM.

 

All i want for Christmas.

 

 

[MrDieing]

Is anyone else getting annoyed with people that get annoyed due to the lack of updates? Patience is getting more rare in an ever faster world.

[Fri13]

The viper should have never been released in the initial state it was. At best it should only have ever been released in the state it is in now. So it got released a year too early

 

I got plenty of fun and nice positive learning experiences from the day 1.

But maybe it is just me as I understand the software development phases and such uncommon words as "Open Beta" and "Early Access" that means that software is not meant for the "average joe" and totally not at all for the production and entertainment systems.

 

If I criticize ED for anything, it is that they push marketing videos and promote Open Beta as the primary product. They shouldn't. They should only allow any youtube content creator to do the promotional material what comes to Stable branch. All the ED own videos should be about Stable.

It doesn't mean that some can't report news about Open Beta and Early Access, but the main business should be in Stable, and leave the Open Beta and Early Access to those who really can understand and accept that software is suppose to get broken time to time so they need to roll back the update if wanted to get something else working back. If someone is not mentally and spiritually capable deal a such development problems, they should stick to Stable and not look for the Open Beta.

 

One of the worst PR that ED receives, is them doing it for themselves by allowing (directly or indirectly) various youtube content creators to promote the beta software for the enthusiasts audience, that are not up to task to handle the downsides of software development that requires very deep acceptance that there are weeks when your software doesn't work. And if someone puts hundreds/thousands of money to that hobby and they expect to be able have fun between work and all other things, they shouldn't be in testing branch if they are not receiving enjoyment from the software going broken, to be found to be wrongly modeled, to have all kind faults and quirks etc.

 

Early Access is "rolling development", it is meant to get broken, to be in pieces, to go wrong here and there and then finally get fixed and improved. Only when the product is released from the Early Access should majority (80-90% of the players) adapt to it and become invested to it.

 

And that is challenge that any studio will face in financing part as for them the Early Access funding process is critical, but it is just self-harming effect that then these people who has patience as a 5 year old, get annoyed in the first possible moment when they find something is wrong.

 

It is acceptable that if after 2-3 years something is broken to spend time for questioning it. But that when something is broken for days, weeks or even a months, that is just wrong. It is just a sign that person is not capable deal the software production problems and they should seek the version meant for production, the stable branch.

 

From the production standpoint that developers might have, it is good if they can accept the errors, problems and dilemmas, as accepting them means they are needed to be solved. But if someone starts ignoring, rejecting and saying that something is "good enough" when it is clearly otherwise, it is huge PR problem.

And as long the studio is open for discussion, to explain with reasons and data why something is how, it will give them time and as well change to get things right.

 

And F-16 has been in good mannerly speaking open for the development and challenges and everything. It is early in its development process and people should respect that developers allowed public to chime in for it rough road. If someone can't hold their finger away from "purchase" button and gets annoyed by the development phases, they are just making own paper cuts to their hands and then screaming that it is someone else fault.

[Torri]

Flight model updates is what I'm waiting for, all these new weapons systems etc I couldn't care less about so long as the aircraft isn't performing as it should. STR below 0.45 M is still way too low, whilst ITR is too low in several regions and G onset rate is painfully slow.

 

Agreed. Until the very basics are done, I won't care too much for new weapon systems.

[BuzzU]

 

Because it says your 'join date' below your user name, on the left side of the forum...... Hence the 16 years reference.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

Cmon, i'm not that stupid. I'm asking why he thinks I don't see the quality of DCS. I know what my join date is.

 

Why are you answering my question to him?

[BuzzU]

Fun fact, A-10s can boresight their Mavs in flight on their element mates.

 

I'd assume that boresighting is coming for all Mav shooters.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

Yes, the Hog does that but it's not realistic. The Viper is.

[Droning_On]

 

Early access is a long process, there is no escaping it.

We currently have two engineers full time on the Viper; one is refactoring the entire SPI system for the Viper and the other is finishing up the Maverick and adding POS mode for the HARM. We also just recently re-did the ground handling model and adjust various drag values. Our primary goal is currently to get the Hornet out of early access by the end of the year, so the bulk of our resources must be first dedicated against this task.

 

Also to add, the viper was not "forgotten" in this patch

 

DCS F-16C Viper by ED

• Added pylons mass accounting to FM.
  
• Adjust payloads drag AIM-9.
  
• 3 Syria mission have snap views included creating problems for users - Fixed.
  
• Added CN localization for QS and Single missions.
  
• UFC Training mission static aircraft placement issue - Fixed
  

 

 

 

 

Looks like I need to be a little more patient then......... :thumbup: :pilotfly:

[Droning_On]

Is anyone else getting annoyed with the lack of F-16C updates while the work on the F-18 just seems to be never ending

 

Yeah, and every two weeks they come create a whinge thread just like yours.

Like it was said before.... If I new the F-18 was priority I would have bought that rather than £70 for the Viper....... and whats the matter with a Whinge.... you dont ask you dont get.

[Droning_On]

No, not really. Though I just got the F-16. But that's kind of my point. I'm still collecting. I don't have infinite funds so when a sale comes along, provided I've budgeted enough, and I want the module, I pick it up. Then it takes me awhile to really learn the module and be able to apply it properly. Then because I simply cannot fit all of the realistic detail of every module in my brain at once, whenever I learn a new full fidelity module, another one slips completely out. So if I get tired of the F-16, I can either get a completely new module (like maybe the A-10, F-5, etc) or I can just revisit one I really like. Such as the F-18, or Mirage. I'm sure I'll have gripes at some point about the F-16, just like I've had with the F-14 at times, but ultimately I doubt I'll feel like ED is abandoning one of these flag-ship modules. They've committed to these products more than just about any other gaming company I've ever seen.

 

I really can't fathom this thought process, it's too short-sighted. No offense intended. But look at the product quality and offerings available within 3 years. Dates per Steam - In this time they've added the F-18, F-16, third party F-14, Persian Gulf map, Syria map, A-10 II, Blackshark II, third party Channel map, P-47, third party JF-17, Super Carrier, third party I-16, third party MiG-19P, Christen Eagle, Aviojet, Mig-29, Yak-52, Normandy map and assets, Viggen, Spitfire, Nevada map, M-2000, plus core updates, bug fixes, and on and on.

 

Edit: And the poster above me has been here for 16 years. Sixteen. YEARS. Surely you can step back and see the quality?

I LOVE the DCS Viper its my plane and I Fly it most nights too.... but every update I'm flying through the changelog more out of hope these days...

[Droning_On]

Also features developed for the Hornet, like AG radar, will find their way into the Viper too later. It's not like there is no synergy effect and the Viper does not benefit from current Hornet development at all.

 

I anyways wonder how much of the potential of the current Viper the average dude is able to put to a use right now. From observation a lot of folks can't even take off from the right runway (downwind), distinguish between QNH and QFE or perform a 30DB2 but are mad because they got no feature or weapon system XY right now.

Maybe use the time it takes for new features to flesh out your pilot skills *hint hint* (same goes for demanding new modules all the time while being able to use maybe 30% of each of the others they already own) ;)

 

When it comes to "implement Maverick boresighting which makes the Viper even more annoying": welcome to a simulation or, like someone else just said in another thread: lots of folks are in for more realism, but when it's inconvenient realism there's a lot of crying and tantrum.

looks to me more that features for the recently released A-10 II are droping to the F-18.......... go figure

[Droning_On]

Is anyone else getting annoyed with the lack of F-16C updates while the work on the F-18 just seems to be never ending

 

Early access is a long process, there is no escaping it.

We currently have two engineers full time on the Viper; one is refactoring the entire SPI system for the Viper and the other is finishing up the Maverick and adding POS mode for the HARM. We also just recently re-did the ground handling model and adjust various drag values. Our primary goal is currently to get the Hornet out of early access by the end of the year, so the bulk of our resources must be first dedicated against this task.

 

Also to add, the viper was not "forgotten" in this patch

 

DCS F-16C Viper by ED

• Added pylons mass accounting to FM.
  
• Adjust payloads drag AIM-9.
  
• 3 Syria mission have snap views included creating problems for users - Fixed.
  
• Added CN localization for QS and Single missions.
  
• UFC Training mission static aircraft placement issue - Fixed
  

 

 

 

thx BIGNEWY I'll be patient :).... just a bit of jelousy creeps in I suppose when the A-10 II guys get all the toys (updated HMCS) then the F-18 guys reap the rewards (JHMCS)..... ignore me still love the Viper lol

[BIGNEWY]

 

Looks like I need to be a little more patient then......... :thumbup: :pilotfly:

 

Yes, and we appreciate the patience, the complexity of these modules requires time, and without your support, your bug reports and feedback it would not be possible.

 

We truly are grateful, it makes all of this possible, and by the end of early access we will have something very special, then we can all say we played our part in it.

 

thank you.

 

 

[WHOGX5]

Fact of the matter is that we weren't told that the F-16 would be put on hold for the F-18 to be finished. We were told there would be a parallel symbiotic development process for both the Viper and the Hornet. The issue isn't the slow rate at which new features are implemented at. The main issue is that most of the features that are already implemented are broken. This does not merely apply to newly added features, but features that were added +1 year ago are still broken and there's no signs of improvement. As a result of this a lot of the F-16 pilots in our community are leaving to fly other aircraft because it's simply not fun to fly a broken aircraft and ruin entire missions for ourselves and others because we fly an unpredictable, broken mess of an aircraft. I just hope it won't take too long for the Viper to start receiving serious bugfixes, but there's currently no improvement in sight.

[Ziptie]

 

Cmon, i'm not that stupid. I'm asking why he thinks I don't see the quality of DCS. I know what my join date is.

 

Why are you answering my question to him?

 

Well, sometimes people don't see things - so please don't take offense that I pointed that out. As for the second part of his "question" - I didn't answer that because I don't understand what he is even asking. Stepping out - don't be so sensitive, I've never called you stupid. (remember our PM conversation? Just checking....)

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[BuzzU]

 

Well, sometimes people don't see things - so please don't take offense that I pointed that out. As for the second part of his "question" - I didn't answer that because I don't understand what he is even asking. Stepping out - don't be so sensitive, I've never called you stupid. (remember our PM conversation? Just checking....)

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

Yes, I remember our PM's. I started them. That's why I was surprised by your post. You should have known I wasn't talking about my join date.

 

Yes, I don't know what he was talking about either. I sure made no mention of DCS quality.

 

Anyway, let's not do this anymore.