Patch Dec 17th Feedback Thread

[IronMike]

Dear all,

as always we want to offer a feedback thread for this patch. Our apologies again that we did not manage to include the campaign, it will be in the next patch, but you can download and play it in the meantime here:

 

Here is the changelog of today's patch.
 

• Add new F-14A unit types to ALR-67 threat library.
• Explicitly prevent all sparrows but AIM-7MH from lofting.
• Fixed AIM-7 not tracking correctly in PD-STT.
• Make Radar send radio command when launching in AIM-54 in PD-STT so F-14 RWR can detect it.
• Fixed sparrow flood mode giving radio command (triggering target RWR) prior to launch.
• Added new TTI calculation with real time update.
• Renamed F-14A models to avoid clashes with VSN mods.
• Added more potential fixes for Jester switching to RWS right after TWS Phoenix. Launch (could not reproduce bug reported by some).
• Fixed DCS log warnings about duplicated ALU shapes.
• Tweaked FM for both -B and -A:
  • Slightly reduced transonic airframe drag
  • Adjusted intake drag at low airflow ratios for TF30
  • Restored and re-tested previous F110 subsonic and supersonic AB thrust
  • Re-tuned TF30 AB thrust
  • Adjusted TF30 extreme high altitude core thrust and fuel flow
  • Adjusted TF30 extreme high altitude AB fuel flow schedule
  • Adjusted TF30 burner temperature model to be less prone to engine fires at extreme high altitude/low speed
  • Adjusted TF30 fuel control gains and spool dynamics
  • Adjusted TF30 gross thrust at low RPMs
• Fixed ground spoiler logic.
• Added F-14A single and multiplayer missions.
• Added VF-11 Red Rippers 106 livery.
• Added VF-33 Starfighters 201 livery.
• Exterior engine sound adjustments.
• Fixed LAU-7 color on some liveries.
• AIM-54 now uses distance (determined by TGT Size switch: large=13NM, medium=10NM, small=6NM) for going active, instead of 16s TTI.
• Added special option for convenience to allow “Weapon selector up” binding to emulate “weapon selector press” when in SP/PH position, to toggle between Phoenix and Sparrow.
• JESTER Menu changes & additions:
  • Radar mode submenu renamed to Radar Settings
  • TWS-M switch added
  • TGT Size switch submenu added
  • Ground/Aircraft stabilize renamed to TID Ground/Aircraft stabilize
  • Scan distance renamed to TID range
• Changed kneeboard datalink hosts page to use unit display name instead of type name.
• Fixed AI F-14A nozzle animations & afterburner.

[Spurts]

No more FR-71A BlackCat huh?  This list looks great!  I can't wait to fire it up this weekend.

Is the Campaign Multicrew and/or Multiplayer(multiplane) compatible?

[BreaKKer]

1 hour away from the patch, and I am curious of the AIM-54 terminal guidance problems. 

[Steve Gee]

• AIM-54 now uses distance (determined by TGT Size switch: large=13NM, medium=10NM, small=6NM) for going active, instead of 16s TTI.

Will there be some sort of future Jester update so pilots can select this through the Jester interface? If you're piloting online, won't this selection be unavailable to you if not?

 

Edit - Nevermind, was pointed out to me it was already in the notes and I just didn't see it.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Steve Gee

[Spurts]

I saw that in the update notes under Jester stuff

[maxsin72]

At which hour the patch will be released? At the moment is still not available.

[eatthis]

please please PLEASE when you say adjusted x or y can you tell us in what way and how much youve adjusted it pretty please with a cherry on top. it drives me NUTS when i read that lol.
weve changed x, ok HOW?????? 

 

[fat creason]

5 minutes ago, eatthis said:

please please PLEASE when you say adjusted x or y can you tell us in what way and how much youve adjusted it pretty please with a cherry on top. it drives me NUTS when i read that lol.
weve changed x, ok HOW?????? 

 

 

That's classified 

[Uxi]

Was hoping the late 80s VF-1, VF-2, VF-41, VF-84  liveries from Reflected would make it.  

 

Downloading now to see how they handle. 

[Swordsman422]

Ran the update and I'm not seeing either of the new liveries on the list.

[IronMike]

1 hour ago, eatthis said:

please please PLEASE when you say adjusted x or y can you tell us in what way and how much youve adjusted it pretty please with a cherry on top. it drives me NUTS when i read that lol.
weve changed x, ok HOW?????? 

 

 

It is often values, that dont make a lot of sense if tossed around, or would need a lot of explaining etc... Please remember that we said we will do a very in depth FM report once we are done with the changes, where we will explain the whole itinerary of the FM.

[IronMike]

14 minutes ago, Swordsman422 said:

Ran the update and I'm not seeing either of the new liveries on the list.

 

Can anyone confirm this?

[goAdA]

7 minutes ago, IronMike said:

 

Can anyone confirm this?

The livery is indeed in F14A livery list

 

Phoenix now pitbulls according to target size as expected, and so does the blinking TTI. Well done! Also noted that AI will respond to pitbull aim54 much sooner than indicated pitbull time, but now if the contact is lost at the last moment before missile goes active, the missile can still go active and find the target, assuming it is actually looking for the held track by awg9. Only tested in singleplayer tho, the game refuses to log in my account so no luck on MP yet.

I'm not sure if this pitbull-by-range is realistic or just a temporary solution, but if it works (so far it works fine) and at least provides a pitbull indication on tid, id take it 

[IronMike]

23 minutes ago, goAdA said:

The livery is indeed in F14A livery list

 

Phoenix now pitbulls according to target size as expected, and so does the blinking TTI. Well done! Also noted that AI will respond to pitbull aim54 much sooner than indicated pitbull time, but now if the contact is lost at the last moment before missile goes active, the missile can still go active and find the target, assuming it is actually looking for the held track by awg9. Only tested in singleplayer tho, the game refuses to log in my account so no luck on MP yet.

I'm not sure if this pitbull-by-range is realistic or just a temporary solution, but if it works (so far it works fine) and at least provides a pitbull indication on tid, id take it 

 

Thank you.

 

It is realistic (and will stay like that). SME input finally led us to discover the proper activation criteria. The 16s TTI was a crew rule of thumb, which we interpreted wrongly so far. It never really appeared to us, since such things are not readily available in manuals which are readily available themselves. With the TTI being off lately, we started re-investigating and asking our SMEs more indepth about it, where it got noted that the 16s TTI was wrongly implemented as activation criterion previously. Funny enough: since we did the change, the TTI flashing active will be much more often close to 16s now, than it was before. Also, note that the TTI itself has been improved and is more accurate now. The 16s can remain as a rule of thumb, but what you are looking for now is when the TTI starts to flash, whether that is at 13 seconds or 16 seconds does not matter anymore in that sense.

Note that in real life distance matters for detection. We believe this isn't really modeled in DCS, but what holds up is the missile's cone. A small target might slip out of the cone at/around activation when maneuvering easier than a large target, so that is one thing to be kept in mind. It is likely if trying to send it active on a missile as target at 13nm, the phoenix won't detect it. IRL as mentioned that would be also limited with detection range of the missile's radar relative to target size, but again, that is likely not reflected in DCS.

Another thing to keep in mind: further away activation will let you go cold sooner, but give the bandit more warning. Close in activation will give the bandit a later warning, but you need to support the missile further. Something to be weighed, when selecting the TGT size.

Edited December 17, 2020 by IronMike

[Uxi]

Didn't really notice any handling difference though did notice the F110 didn't make the bang noise when lighting the burners this time. Everything on the TF30 seemed the same with the 5 puffs. 

 

I saw the new livery. Is it accurate that they painted the red line over the inflatable glove bags and base tips of the tails? I've seen that on one of my Hobbymaster Tomcats and thought it might have been a rote paintjob or mistake on their part,  though seeing it here makes me think they did that sometimes. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Uxi

[QuiGon]

22 minutes ago, IronMike said:

 

It is realistic (and will stay like that). SME input finally led us to discover the proper activation criteria. The 16s TTI was a crew rule of thumb, which we interpreted wrongly so far. It never really appeared to us, since such things are not readily available in manuals which are readily available themselves. With the TTI being off lately, we started re-investigating and asking our SMEs more indepth about it, where it got noted that the 16s TTI was wrongly implemented as activation criterion previously. Funny enough: since we did the change, the TTI flashing active will be much more often close to 16s now, than it was before. Also, note that the TTI itself has been improved and is more accurate now. The 16s can remain as a rule of thumb, but what you are looking for now is when the TTI starts to flash, whether that is at 13 seconds or 16 seconds does not matter anymore in that sense.

Note that in real life distance matters for detection. We believe this isn't really modeled in DCS, but what holds up is the missile's cone. A small target might slip out of the cone at/around activation when maneuvering easier than a large target, so that is one thing to be kept in mind. It is likely if trying to send it active on a missile as target at 13nm, the phoenix won't detect it. IRL as mentioned that would be also limited with detection range of the missile's radar relative to target size, but again, that is likely not reflected in DCS.

Another thing to keep in mind: further away activation will let you go cold sooner, but give the bandit more warning. Close in activation will give the bandit a later warning, but you need to support the missile further. Something to be weighed, when selecting the TGT size.

 

 

Thanks for the background info on these changes!

 

Two questions on this:
- Once the go-active command has been send, the Phoenix does not recieve DL updates, correct?

- Can the target size (and hence the go-active distance) be changed for a Phoenix that is already in the air?

[IronMike]

Just now, Uxi said:

Didn't really notice any handling difference thigh did notice the F110 didn't make the bang noise when lighting the burners this time. Everything on the TF30 seemed the same with the 5 puffs. 

 

I saw the new livery. Is it accurate that they painted the red line over the inflatable glove bags and base tips of the tails? I've seen that on one of my Hobbymaster Tomcats and thought it might have been a rote paintjob or mistake on their part,  though seeing it here makes me think they did that sometimes. 

 

They did. We thought it was some mistake on some model we saw before as well, and then found out they indeed painted it there.

[DarkStar79]

Looking good mike! Will test soon!

[IronMike]

Just now, QuiGon said:

 

Thanks for the background info on these changes!

 

Two questions on this:
- Once the go-active command has been send, the Phoenix does not recieve DL updates, correct?

- Can the target size (and hence the go-active distance) be changed for a Phoenix that is already in the air?

- iirc: IRL it would, but not in DCS, as active is kind of hard-modeled, means a missile can be either or, but not both. iirc, and Naquaii can correct me here if I am wrong, IRL it could also be both active and SARH at the same time, something which isn't possible in DCS.
- negative: tgt size needs to be selected prior to launch.

[QuiGon]

Just now, IronMike said:

- iirc: IRL it would, but not in DCS, as active is kind of hard-modeled, means a missile can be either or, but not both. iirc, and Naquaii can correct me here if I am wrong, IRL it could also be both active and SARH at the same time, something which isn't possible in DCS.
- negative: tgt size needs to be selected prior to launch.

 

Awesome, thanks a lot!

[Uxi]

Then on other pics I see it like Reflected did where is not on the bags. Certainly possible a variation... or they changed the bags or paint wore off quicker or something like that since the bags seemed to stain with fluids and/or environmental change on the different material.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Uxi

[IronMike]

Just now, Uxi said:

Then on other pics I see it like Reflected did where is not on the bags. Certainly possible a variation... or they changed the bags or paint wore off quicker or something like that since the bags seemed to stain with fluids and/or environmental change on the different material.

 

 

Honestly I wouldnt know. I also don't know what Reflected used as source material and/or if that was a deliberate artistic decision, etc... TBH, it doesnt look really nice, lol. But since we found out that it was there, we had to keep it ofc.

[eatthis]

2 hours ago, fat creason said:

 

That's classified 

lol the direction cant be classified SURELY??

[goAdA]

AI now seems to start evade (like notch and dive or go cold) as aim54 approach 20-15nm. TWS launch, target size normal, radar contact all the way. Tacview attached.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HfBDIsCYb3QBn0V8W513EpiE0WVZZT7K/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U_clwpLFj5n1FGvX4ndILnGHRV6uzaTK/view?usp=sharing

Edited December 17, 2020 by goAdA

[Swordsman422]

1 hour ago, IronMike said:

 

Can anyone confirm this?

 

It may be working for others, but I even ran a repair and no dice. Here is a couple screenshots of the list with no VF-11 or VF-33.

And just for gits and shiggles, the F-14A coremod livery folder.

 

I'll try rolling back and reupdating.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Swordsman422