resolved Aim-120, Aim-7MH, SD-10 produce 0% hit chance against non-manuevering hot target with blinking ECM+chaff

[Cmptohocah]

If you want an 27 family to hit in DCS, make sure that you fire at around 5-10km distance. Anything else is a miracle if it hits, provided of course that the target is not a complete noob that just doesn't react.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Has the '1g' bug also not been fixed yet ?
When you lose  the bug for a split second and the missile goes dumb and will not fly to last known extrapolated position , and will also not start tracking if target is re-aquired ? 

[SgtPappy]

40 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Has the '1g' bug also not been fixed yet ?
When you lose  the bug for a split second and the missile goes dumb and will not fly to last known extrapolated position , and will also not start tracking if target is re-aquired ? 

I'm not 100% sure if this is a bug or is currently simply a limitation. I do not remember any missile flying towards a last known position during any patch.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[GGTharos]

Yep, AMRAAM did it until someone complained that it made it too good.  In other words, the '1g' is a non-bug that is here to stay.

Edited February 1, 2021 by GGTharos

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Even when you re-acquire the target with the planes radar ?
This would mean that you only have to notch enemy plane radar for a split second and missile is trashed ?

Edited February 1, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[GGTharos]

That is correct.  The missile should be capable (not guaranteed, just capable) of reacquiring (or the missile might not lose track at all, different angle so the missile itself isn't notched) while the track memory is active, unless the target walks out of the radar beam ... it's not really simulated in this kind of detail though.

[dundun92]

1 hour ago, GGTharos said:

the '1g' is a non-bug that is here to stay

@BIGNEWY said its planned to be fixed, theres no reason if you break lock at say 40nm on a lofted shot the missile should fly into space, it should use the INS to fly to last known target position, its just one of those WIP things. But CSGO, it should NOT get new datalink if you regain lock, that is not realistic

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

I'd rather they fix this ecm thing first though , i can't believe they haven't with this latest patch >_<

[SgtPappy]

17 hours ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

I'd rather they fix this ecm thing first though , i can't believe they haven't with this latest patch >_<

 

It might be a lot more involved than we think, hard to tell unless we were the ones actually working on the code.

[captain_dalan]

Sometimes i think DCS should be made guns only.......

[Cmptohocah]

3 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

Sometimes i think DCS should be made guns only.......

Yes, but only once the warping in multiplayer is fixed. No point in doing fancy offensive maneuvers when the enemy in front of you is zig-zagging around like a bar of wet soap.

 

On 2/1/2021 at 9:29 PM, dundun92 said:

@BIGNEWY said its planned to be fixed, theres no reason if you break lock at say 40nm on a lofted shot the missile should fly into space, it should use the INS to fly to last known target position, its just one of those WIP things. But CSGO, it should NOT get new datalink if you regain lock, that is not realistic

Is there any data on how accurate the INSs are on missiles. I mean, what is the expected error of the INS?

 

[GGTharos]

30 minutes ago, Cmptohocah said:

Is there any data on how accurate the INSs are on missiles. I mean, what is the expected error of the INS?

 

The problem is that whatever commands there are being uplinked to the missile WRT where to look for a target are no longer transmitted so the seeker has to search with old data; if there are multiple targets it might choose the wrong one (or it may find no target) with all the reasonable complications that you can imagine for this, etc ... mostly N/A DCS; think about it this way, INS slippage has consequences because you'll have position and doppler errors, so that means your doppler gate, range gate and angle gate will slip ... maybe not much, and any error induced by target maneuver will be greater anyway.

 

So suppose this missile arrives at its search point after 30 sec of no updates; things may have slipped by half a degree (yep, the least accurate INU, MEMS, will give you some 30deg/hour error AFAIK), but if the target has been doing whatever it was doing before, it'll likely fall well into the doppler, range and angle gate (The brits pretty much proved this works with the 120 ... they didn't like the results, but that's a different matter).   If the target maneuvers, the missile has to throw those gates open in an attempt to find anything at all, and that's a potential problem.

 

Example product:  https://emcore.com/products/sdi500-tactical-grade-imu-inertial-measurement-unit/

 

This one's pretty modern, so you can imagine the 2000's or 1990's stuff to be less accurate.  There's probably a historical study somewhere.

Edited February 3, 2021 by GGTharos

[Hodo]

*gasp* people will be forced to use fox-1 missiles for BVR.  Think of the children.

 

On a serious note that is a pretty bad bug.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

On 2/2/2021 at 3:26 PM, SgtPappy said:

 

It might be a lot more involved than we think, hard to tell unless we were the ones actually working on the code.

But they were able to produce the bug, so they know what to do to un-produce it right ? 
Just undo the ecm thing they did . 

This bug is kind of a big deal , not sure what the holdup is 

[Nickkerkwijk]

I'm glad this is reported and hope it wil be a very quick fix. A few days ago i was flying CAP to protect 2 heli pilots and i couldnt hit a single target with the Amraams, only guns and the 9x's would score a hit. It was almost like i was flying a Flanker or a Fulcrum

[Hodo]

16 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

But they were able to produce the bug, so they know what to do to un-produce it right ? 
Just undo the ecm thing they did . 

This bug is kind of a big deal , not sure what the holdup is 

It's a big deal to those who can't use anything else.  It sucks but I don't think it is just a missile issue.

 

I have had my locks broke by someone cycling the ECM at 10nm.  

 

In the meantime use Aim-7 sparrows.  Unfortunately for the JF there is no other BVR option.

[GGTharos]

17 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

But they were able to produce the bug, so they know what to do to un-produce it right ? 
Just undo the ecm thing they did . 

This bug is kind of a big deal , not sure what the holdup is 

 

It's really not a bug ... it's operating exactly the way it used to back in the day, and it is the very reason that the ECM 'warm up' was added.   This way of handling it is no longer adequate, so they need to look at handling the ECM from radar and missile POV in a different way.  It isn't a trivial task, though I wish they would make a comment on it.

[Harker]

3 hours ago, GGTharos said:

 

It's really not a bug ... it's operating exactly the way it used to back in the day, and it is the very reason that the ECM 'warm up' was added.   This way of handling it is no longer adequate, so they need to look at handling the ECM from radar and missile POV in a different way.  It isn't a trivial task, though I wish they would make a comment on it.

Agreed. It'd be nice if they worked on these changes in the background though, separately from the release branch and introduce the whole system when it's ready. Because now, they'll likely have to revert to older code as a quick fix for the current issue (unless their seeker - ECM interaction API is ready), which means wasted dev time. We had something that was working better than the current version, we could've kept it until the new API was fully completed.

This is likely pretty complicated stuff to code and I feel for the devs who have to code back and forth between versions. Much better to work on it on the side and introduce the code block(s) when they're ready, without the pressure of releasing it incrementally and dealing with the issues as they pop up.

[Cmptohocah]

I have a suggestion: how about ED releases a patch where, human flown, Su-27/33s and MiG-29s are not affected by the F/A-18's ECM? Does that sound fair or sound familiar?
Then ED can take even years to fix all the ECM issues that were are experiencing. 

Oh wait, but who's gonna represent target drones for the Hornet boys in multi player then? 

[Hodo]

3 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

I have a suggestion: how about ED releases a patch where, human flown, Su-27/33s and MiG-29s are not affected by the F/A-18's ECM? Does that sound fair or sound familiar?
Then ED can take even years to fix all the ECM issues that were are experiencing. 

Oh wait, but who's gonna represent target drones for the Hornet boys in multi player then? 

Funny I have never had issues with F/A-18c Hornets.   It has been the UFO Eagles and manned missile Falcons.   The Hornet with all of those AMRAAMs is a bus and pretty easy to dispatch with a Mirage or MiG-29S.

[Joni]

Any comments on this? I just came back from vacations and noticed that it isn't working correctly yet.

[HWasp]

I did not see any mention of this in todays OB patch as well. When is this going to be fixed?

[Coxy_99]

Its not updated tested.

[Joni]

5 hours ago, Coxy_99 said:

Its not updated tested.

 

Come again?

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

It's still not updated. (fixed)
He has tested it. 

(i think) 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah