Do you use VKB MCG Pro Flip trigger?

[Dangerzone]

Got the VKB MCG and love the concept of the flip trigger. Only thing is, I'm not really sure what it would be used for. 

 

Just wondering who here uses the flip trigger, and if so for which modules, and what do you find it useful for?

[Northstar98]

Yes, I use it as a safety switch - particularly in the Viggen.

 

I would use it in other aircraft if they had the requisite bindings for it.

[Weegie]

I use it sometimes for firing rockets or bombs, on some modules, or a master arm in others. I've got the MCG on a Mamba and it's a superb combo, I'm still waiting on a Gunfighter (seamless trade between UK and EU.........................right!!! over 3 weeks in customs and still no sign)

 

What's pretty cool is the trigger can be configured to give button activation for safe, hot and 3 triggers. I don't use the double trigger command though as it's too many buttons for me. Using it as a single trigger in the MCG software then having the normal trigger activate, in effect giving a double trigger works well for me though

 

The VKB software is really great, it's just a bit intimidating and a little difficult to navigate until you get used to it.

[Maggot]

As already mentioned it’s perfect for safe/unsafe or master arm on/off.

[dburne]

Yes I user it as follows"

Flipped up - Safety

Flipped down - armed

Squeeze - Guns trigger

I use the upper left button for my bombs etc.

[McGraw]

I use it for landing gear. Was using it for pickle but was too hard to pull 1st stage on the other trigger at the same time

[Fri13]

20 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Got the VKB MCG and love the concept of the flip trigger. Only thing is, I'm not really sure what it would be used for. 

 

Just wondering who here uses the flip trigger, and if so for which modules, and what do you find it useful for?

 

Its true potential is in a KA-50 and Su-27S and so on.

In the Su-27S it is your weapon release trigger, while the main trigger is your Autopilot Disable (override), and your red "weapon release" (in western aircraft) is your Autopilot Shutoff (for combat maneuvering etc).

 

In KA-50 it is your cannon trigger. But it requires a modification to configs as by default KA-50 cannon triggering is a button, not a switch.

You need to add new line to the file Mods\aircraft\Ka-50\Input\ka-50\joystick\default.lua and comment the old out at line 275 or 276:

 

-- {down = iCommandPlaneModeCannon, name = _('Gun Select'), category = _('Ins Cyclic Stick')},

{down = iCommandPlaneModeCannon, value_down = 1.0, up = iCommandPlaneModeCannon, value_up = 0.0, name = _(' Gun Select Toggle'), category = _('Ins Cyclic Stick')},
 

Green is the old line, blue is the new line.

I have done a OvME compatible mod just for that, so I don't need to edit file each time update comes, but I can just enable the mod.

 

That allows you to have the trigger up/down as a gun selector that is in settings as top of bindings list, and you get weapon release with other trigger.

It becomes very easy to use cannon and rockets/missiles with that flip trigger.

 

What comes to other modules, one needs to understand where I come from. I do not have mouse or keyboard when I fly in DCS. I only have HOTAS + pedals + touch controllers.

Everything that I bind to the HOTAS are as closely matching to the real aircraft HOTAS configuration. So if something is not in the real HOTAS, then I do not add it to mine either. And otherwise I have got little creative with the functions positions, but I keep strictly the correct stick and throttle quadrants sides. So if example the TDC axis is on the throttle, then it is on the throttle. If the IFF integrator is in the stick, then it is in the joystick. And functions are placed as closely to the real thing, so if in real thing it is used with thumb, then I use it with thumb.

  And this is reason why I like to use two throttles, Thrustmaster TWS one that is very close to the real Hornet throttle (single instead twin grips, up/down button slider for radar instead spring loaded axis etc) but I prefer to use CH Pro Throttle as I can mount it for a moment vertically for helicopter collective and have anyways more proper style for Harrier throttle grip (it is as well vertical, TDC used by thumb etc).

 

The VKB MCG Pro was obvious purchase as no other grip/joystick offers the same capability as it does. As that flip trigger is not just a button, it is actual axis. You get as well Up/Down position detected, but you can as well have multiple buttons by axis2buttons function as well it physical spring button.

This made possible to get realistic KA-50 grip, and anyways model almost every other grip there is because it has two mini-sticks and 5-way button + 3 normal buttons just on the face of it.

I can have the two mini-sticks operate as two separate modes, as POV hats or mini-sticks. Pressing 1 second both down swap their modes. So flying different aircraft means I can just switch between modes by holding them down. In Su-27S I have a axis to slew radar, but in Harrier I have a trim.

 

The most obvious place to use it for western aircraft would be a master arm, but as I said I don't like that way as if I want to operate master arm, I move my hand on location where the master arm is and I use it. That way I have learn quickly and efficiently to operate all aircrafts as I don't need to remember any bindings or combos or search for mouse etc, but I have muscle memory that where I need to move my hand to find the function.

It as well dramatically makes bigger immersion as you learn cockpits bad and good sides in their designs, like in a Hornet it is pure annoyance that LTD/R switch is at the right side panel, as it means I need to hold the stick with left hand while I use my right hand to flip that switch. Easy way would be just to bind that switch to HOTAS and call it a day, but it would take away from immersion. As you quickly learn that why it is there and what is its purpose.

 

This kind binding makes value the designs far more, like flying with F-14 is totally hellish experience compared to F/A-18C as you really have hands all over the places to operate Tomcat, while in Hornet you have hands pretty much on HOTAS. In Harrier N/A variant the throttle doesn't have a "A/A Program" button like the "Plus" variant does have, and that means in N/A variant you can't fire TPOD laser by pressing that button, but you need to reach to OBS 8 button on DDI that has the TPOD video to fire and stop laser. Similar way in N/A variant you can't use digital zoom for TPOD than using OBS 3 and 4, but in "Plus" variant you can use Radar dial to zoom.

 

It is sad that there isn't more use for the flip trigger, as it truly shows the great interface design in the Soviet fighters. But luckily it can be used on some aircraft like L-39 as the trigger guard as well, so for many aircraft it has its places, but for many it has none (if doing like me).

KA-50 MCG Trigger.zip

[Dangerzone]

I completely missed that it was an AXIS and not just a button - sweet. That certainly opens up more options.

[Mars Exulte]

I usually use it for the cannon, with several virtual buttons across the axis. Flip down toggles to the gun, halfway is first stage trigger, all the way is second stage trigger, flip up toggles the gun back off.

Edited February 16, 2021 by zhukov032186

[Uxi]

Yup. I did the optional of different button presses from down vs up. In DCS, Master arm on Tomcat and Hornet. Flipping up stows hard points in Elite Dangerous while pulling the flip trigger deploys them.  

[Headwarp]

I have the flip trigger on my MCGU setup as 4 buttons,  up and down, the button press at the "Click" mid travel, and then a logical button when I fully depress the trigger.  So it's a two stage trigger with an arm/safe function.   Even if there is no arm/safe function in a given aircraft, flipping the trigger up acts as a safety. 

 

I enjoy the flip trigger much much more than the dual stage trigger, which, IRL was to active autopilot or radio or something along those lines.

 

Coming from the warthog, I was initially less than impressed when I hit the red trigger.. but now it's just 2 extra buttons because I use the flip trigger for my guns in every aircraft.  The trigger pull feels like shooting a Browning .22LR semi-auto pistol.   A little heavier than that even.  I love the audible click at the break point but being able to pull right through it. 

 

 

[Munkwolf]

3 hours ago, Headwarp said:

I have the flip trigger on my MCGU setup as 4 buttons,  up and down, the button press at the "Click" mid travel, and then a logical button when I fully depress the trigger.  So it's a two stage trigger with an arm/safe function.

 

I have mine setup the same way.

 

Like with the brake lever, it's great with the vehicles that actually have the flip trigger.

 

This weekend I started diving into the huey more, and did a LUA edit to have 'On else Off' as an option for the pilot's flip-down sight. Now the flip trigger handles the pilot sight, with pulling the trigger triggering the pilot sight on/off.. works great. Probably my favorite use of the flip trigger so far, outside of it being mapped to a flip trigger.

[DavePastry]

I fly VR exclusively and use mine for zoom functions, flipped down toggles low zoom, pulling and holding trigger engages spyglass zoom

[LeLv30_Superbus]

Remember you can also make the flip of the trigger operate two or more buttons at the same time. I'm using it this way and it's handy in VR with the A-10. When I flip the trigger up or down, it acts as both the MASTER ARM and GUN ARM. This way I don't need a toggle switch for GUNARM. I've got separate weapon release and GAU-8/A triggers.

Edited June 11, 2021 by LeLv30_Superbus

[vortexringstate]

On 6/12/2021 at 10:13 AM, LeLv30_Superbus said:

Remember you can also make the flip of the trigger operate two or more buttons at the same time. I'm using it this way and it's handy in VR with the A-10. When I flip the trigger up or down, it acts as both the MASTER ARM and GUN ARM. This way I don't need a toggle switch for GUNARM. I've got separate weapon release and GAU-8/A triggers.

 

Please show how you did this. Many thanks

On 3/14/2021 at 1:06 PM, Uxi said:

Yup. I did the optional of different button presses from down vs up. 

please show how

[vortexringstate]

Given that the button only activates when its up, Can you guys explain how to get the flip trigger to be MASTER SAFE when up and MASTER ARM when down. its obviously a ON-ELSE OFF command but how ? lua or vkbcfg? examples please

[fallout9]

2 hours ago, vortexringstate said:

Given that the button only activates when its up, Can you guys explain how to get the flip trigger to be MASTER SAFE when up and MASTER ARM when down. its obviously a ON-ELSE OFF command but how ? lua or vkbcfg? examples please

There are several ways to program the flip trigger. You could set it up in the Profile/Axes/Axes2Buttons panel. You could get on/off buttons on Safe and Armed positions (the button will be active as long as the trigger is in that certain position) by checking Safe and Armed boxes. If you don't want a permanent button, then check the Pulse box (this would make the button flash - turn on, then off when the trigger is reaching that position). 

You could also set up 2 other buttons by checking the Fire1 and Fire2 boxes; the distance along the trigger's axis where these buttons would actuate could be set up by their sliders.

The flip trigger's buttons will take consecutive numbers after the first ButN is set up.

In order for the flip trigger to work properly it has to be calibrated. 

 

Here's a video for calibrating MCG Pro/U and here's another one for adjusting the flip trigger.

Edited August 28, 2021 by fallout9

[vortexringstate]

Thank you. Very helpful video. I must re flash my controller as it has obviously been updated... 

[ZeroReady]

On 2/15/2021 at 4:29 PM, Fri13 said:

 

Its true potential is in a KA-50 and Su-27S and so on.

In the Su-27S it is your weapon release trigger, while the main trigger is your Autopilot Disable (override), and your red "weapon release" (in western aircraft) is your Autopilot Shutoff (for combat maneuvering etc).

 

In KA-50 it is your cannon trigger. But it requires a modification to configs as by default KA-50 cannon triggering is a button, not a switch.

You need to add new line to the file Mods\aircraft\Ka-50\Input\ka-50\joystick\default.lua and comment the old out at line 275 or 276:

 

-- {down = iCommandPlaneModeCannon, name = _('Gun Select'), category = _('Ins Cyclic Stick')},

{down = iCommandPlaneModeCannon, value_down = 1.0, up = iCommandPlaneModeCannon, value_up = 0.0, name = _(' Gun Select Toggle'), category = _('Ins Cyclic Stick')},
 

Green is the old line, blue is the new line.

I have done a OvME compatible mod just for that, so I don't need to edit file each time update comes, but I can just enable the mod.

 

That allows you to have the trigger up/down as a gun selector that is in settings as top of bindings list, and you get weapon release with other trigger.

It becomes very easy to use cannon and rockets/missiles with that flip trigger.

 

On 2/15/2021 at 4:29 PM, Fri13 said:

 

 

You are an absolute legend. Just got my Gunfighter today, first thing I wanted to do was make the flip trigger work as it does in the bird, was a bit disappointed to see that it didn't. But your fix just made my day. Thank you!

[glcm1961]

I use mine as the speed brake.   Depress it to activate the brakes and flip it up to retract them.   Works very slick!   

 

[Gyster]

I'm brand new to DCS and waiting for a graphics card to complete my build (only available 4090s are pricing me out, so I continue to wait for my backordered Asus Tuf card).  In the meantime, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about operating the aircraft and DCS in general.  I purchased the BF109 module and have started configuring my HOTAS (VKB gunfighter and Virpil MC3 throttle).  I've been testing using the onboard graphics (i9-13900k) and I have a question regarding the safety switch.  I'm attaching some screen shots to show settings.

Here's how it currently works:

Start in Up Position - Safety off
    Flip down - Safety off
    Flip up - Safety on
    Flip down - Safety on
    Flip up - Safety off
    Flip down - Safety off
    Flip up - Safety on
    Flip down - Safety on

So, I have to flip the switch twice to change from safe to fire and back.  I would prefer to have the safety on anytime the switch is in the up position and safety off when the switch is in the down position.

Curiously, when I double-click in the DCS Controls (where button 24 is displayed) to go to DCS Assignment Panel, no button is listed.  Also, when I flip the switch while in the DCS Controls panel, it doesn't highlight anything.

 

Edited January 8, 2024 by Gyster

[hsth]

Hi,

On my stick it works as intended. In the Windows USB game controller the switch flips from 24 (up = safe) to 28 (down = armed).

What is important that you follow the correct calibration procedure in the VKB software as the position of the switch is important when you start the calibration. You can find the latest video on how to do it on the VKB youtube channel.

Then check in the Windows USB game controller (do not click the calibrate, only the test!).

Also, when I start DCS I always make sure the switch is in the down position. In the L-39 it will work the wrong way around if you don't.

[Gyster]

Thanks hsth, I followed the VKB calibration procedure, but when I check windows usb game controllers, 24 is lit when switch is in down and not lit when it is in up position.  The only other button that lights is 26 which stays lit regardless of the switch position.  I started the calibration process with the switch in the up position...maybe I'll try it in the down position.  All the same, thank you for taking time to reply.

[hsth]

Attached is the document I'v used since the first VKB stick.

Plus a printscreen with settings and small vid that shows it working in VKB software.

 

Gunfighter-MCG-Flash-Reset-Calibration-Guide.pdf

[Gyster]

Thanks again for taking time to look at the hsth.  My screens look exactly like yours with one exception.  On the profile tab, I only have a single Axis Data box (Axis N set to 9).  I unchecked Fire 1 and 2 so everything else looks exactly like yours.  When I flip the switch up, button 24 is activated.  In the down position, button 28 is activated.  But, it still behaves weird - sometimes both guns and cannons start firing until I squeeze the trigger.  I'll keep trying - maybe uninstall/install again.

 

Thanks again!