F/A18E/F Super Hornets block 1 and BLock 2 E/F ( lot 26)

[SilentSparrow]

9 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

To be fair, the EA-18G outer wings are plumbed specifically for those HARMs. Pretty much all they do carry on those pylons..

Ive never seen nor heard of a SH carrying 12 AMRAAMs. Dont quote me on it, but dont htink those outboard pylons are authorized for dual racks.

 

Remember the 10 AMRAAMs on the Legacy? Well, the Super Hornet has 1 extra pylon on each wing, and they CAN carry a single AMRAAM each. So, 10+2=12 AMRAAMs. Also the outer pylons on the Rhino can carry the AGM-88, as seen below:

[Hammer1-1]

2 hours ago, SilentSparrow said:

Remember the 10 AMRAAMs on the Legacy? Well, the Super Hornet has 1 extra pylon on each wing, and they CAN carry a single AMRAAM each. So, 10+2=12 AMRAAMs. Also the outer pylons on the Rhino can carry the AGM-88, as seen below:

Ive built Super Hornets, I know what goes on the wings. Again, Ive never seen anything other than a single missile on that pylon. Apparently I just cant count....

but the 10x AMRAAM Hornet was never a real loadout, just a trial to see if it could successfully engage 10 targets...and it did. Dont think there are any pics of the SH carrying that many missiles.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[SkateZilla]

18 hours ago, SilentSparrow said:

The Super Hornet has more efficient engines, what are you talking about. Plus, it has a 41% higher range. That's a lot.

The Super Hornet has 2 extra hardpoints, BOTH of which can carry the 800-pound AGM-88 missile.

Yes, but not by much.

And yes, the Lot 25 is what we are asking for from a 2-seater. The Lot 29 could work for a single-seater due to the disappearance of the ACS, but the 2-seater Lot 25 is what is really going to sell. They could sell the single and 2 seater Rhinos in the same package, and it would be pretty popular.

Eurofighter vs F/A-18F BVR fights could be the future of DCS World multiplayer. The Super Hornet's 12x AIM-120 capability gives us something good. The SPAMRAAM upgrade.

 

 

1. The Engines offer more thrust, but that's to counter more weight and drag from the larger airframe the EPE/EDEs arent even in mass production yet.
 

2. The Extra SUU-80/A Hardpoint gives them the ability to carry 1 More AIM7/9/120, AGM-65/88, MK82/83 or GBU10/12/16, Per Wing
However more weight = more drag = reduces radius, so extra store is not always a good things.

3. ACS is in Every F/G from Lot 26+, All the way thru the Export F/Gs, and the Block III F/Gs, ACS was never removed, in Block III's ACS is expanded thru the new Large Area Display System.

As Stated, Lot 25 HOL Update is mostly Classified, You'd Need Lot 24 or Earlier, and ACS wasn't Active until Lot 26,
Prior to AESA Units being installed, Cockpits weren't able to operate decoupled.
Prior to ACS the Rear Cockpit was pretty much a clone of the front, Prior to AESA the cockpit modes were coupled.

So a Lot 24 -F vs a Eurofighter, the WSO would basically be a spectator, the Pilot would control the A2A Radar Modes, and the AIM-9X, it would be a waste of development money.

The 12 AMRAAM Loadout isn't going to give you enough fuel to do anything other than take off, ripple, turn around and land.
It's a Scramble / Show of Force Loadout, and has never been used. 
The Most AMRAAMs I've seen in a Deployed Loadout was:
8 AIM120 on SUU79/As Via 4x LAU115C+2xLAU127/A Attachment,
8 AIM120 on Fuselage via 2x LAU116/A
2 AIM7 on SUU80/As Via 2X LAU115C Attachment
2 AIM9Xs on Wingtips

 

 

We wont even get into the fact that the APG-79 weighs 300 lbs more than the APG-73, and the Cooling system weight 75 more pounds than the Block I cooling system, so adding another 35 lbs in weight to an already heavy / draggy airframe.

Edited December 15, 2022 by SkateZilla

[SilentSparrow]

5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

 

1. The Engines offer more thrust, but that's to counter more weight and drag from the larger airframe the EPE/EDEs arent even in mass production yet.
 

2. The Extra SUU-80/A Hardpoint gives them the ability to carry 1 More AIM7/9/120, AGM-65/88, MK82/83 or GBU10/12/16, Per Wing
However more weight = more drag = reduces radius, so extra store is not always a good things.

3. ACS is in Every F/G from Lot 26+, All the way thru the Export F/Gs, and the Block III F/Gs, ACS was never removed, in Block III's ACS is expanded thru the new Large Area Display System.

As Stated, Lot 25 HOL Update is mostly Classified, You'd Need Lot 24 or Earlier, and ACS wasn't Active until Lot 26,
Prior to AESA Units being installed, Cockpits weren't able to operate decoupled.
Prior to ACS the Rear Cockpit was pretty much a clone of the front, Prior to AESA the cockpit modes were coupled.

So a Lot 24 -F vs a Eurofighter, the WSO would basically be a spectator, the Pilot would control the A2A Radar Modes, and the AIM-9X, it would be a waste of development money.

The 12 AMRAAM Loadout isn't going to give you enough fuel to do anything other than take off, ripple, turn around and land.
It's a Scramble / Show of Force Loadout, and has never been used. 
The Most AMRAAMs I've seen in a Deployed Loadout was:
8 AIM120 on SUU79/As Via 4x LAU115C+2xLAU127/A Attachment,
8 AIM120 on Fuselage via 2x LAU116/A
2 AIM7 on SUU80/As Via 2X LAU115C Attachment
2 AIM9Xs on Wingtips

 

 

We wont even get into the fact that the APG-79 weighs 300 lbs more than the APG-73, and the Cooling system weight 75 more pounds than the Block I cooling system, so adding another 35 lbs in weight to an already heavy / draggy airframe.

 

Got it. But, I was saying that we could do Lot 25 for the E and F and possibly the Lot 29 for the E. I don't understand why the HOL is classified if it is shown in MSFS2020.

[SkateZilla]

51 minutes ago, SilentSparrow said:

Got it. But, I was saying that we could do Lot 25 for the E and F and possibly the Lot 29 for the E. I don't understand why the HOL is classified if it is shown in MSFS2020.

HOL is not shown in MSFS2020 By either MS's Version or the Just Flight Version, Just because they have a Super Hornet in the sim does not mean it was accurately simulated.
The HOL OFPs are classified, you wont get any features of those OFPs in any sim, unless "Faked", The MSFS2020 SH has a majority of the systems removed or "Faked".
If you don't believe me, google the reviews done by DCS Users and real pilots.

Please don't base What E.D. or 3rd Parties can do or have off of what MSFS2020 has, MS themselves will also remove any aircraft posted on the marketplace with weapons.
So at this point many developers are jumping to P3D Exclusively, ie VRS, But the SuperBug and Rhino are also Visually Modelled as Block II, but will not have any of the HOL OFP Systems Either, Same with Just Flight.

[SilentSparrow]

20 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

HOL is not shown in MSFS2020 By either MS's Version or the Just Flight Version, Just because they have a Super Hornet in the sim does not mean it was accurately simulated.
The HOL OFPs are classified, you wont get any features of those OFPs in any sim, unless "Faked", The MSFS2020 SH has a majority of the systems removed or "Faked".
If you don't believe me, google the reviews done by DCS Users and real pilots.

Please don't base What E.D. or 3rd Parties can do or have off of what MSFS2020 has, MS themselves will also remove any aircraft posted on the marketplace with weapons.
So at this point many developers are jumping to P3D Exclusively, ie VRS, But the SuperBug and Rhino are also Visually Modelled as Block II, but will not have any of the HOL OFP Systems Either, Same with Just Flight.

Got it. So Lot 24 it is.

[Kev2go]

30 minutes ago, SilentSparrow said:

Got it. So Lot 24 it is.

Lot 20 is a mish mash of OFP's 

A10C II is a mish mash of suites.

F16C is not a pure M4 tape jet. 

F15E strike eagle will end up to be a mish mash of Suites  ( since it will get post Suite 4+ features like aim9x or SNiper TGP) .

Nothing strictly  saying  hypthoetical Super Hornet has to be a A lot 24 or earlier, just to conform to a specific software suites(s). I think a Lot 25 would be desired just for cockpit aesthetics, the new LCD DDI's and not the same ugly archaic DDI's dating back from lot 12 legacy hornets

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Kev2go

[SilentSparrow]

16 minutes ago, Kev2go said:

Lot 20 is a mish mash of OFP's 

A10C II is a mish mash of suites.

F16C is not a pure M4 tape jet. 

F15E strike eagle will end up to be a mish mash of Suites  ( since it will get post Suite 4+ features like aim9x or SNiper TGP) .

Nothing strictly  saying  hypthoetical Super Hornet has to be a A lot 24 or earlier, just to conform to a specific software suites(s). I think a Lot 25 would be desired just for cockpit aesthetics, the new LCD DDI's and not the same ugly archaic DDI's dating back from lot 12 legacy hornets

 

 

@SkateZilla does the HOL include the LCD DDIs? I forgot that we could get a jet with different features, but it actually happens all the time. We probably can get even some Block THREE features (The Enclosed Weapons Pod doesn't really have anything that can be considered classified-worthy) so that's nice.

[SkateZilla]

1 hour ago, SilentSparrow said:

@SkateZilla does the HOL include the LCD DDIs? I forgot that we could get a jet with different features, but it actually happens all the time. We probably can get even some Block THREE features (The Enclosed Weapons Pod doesn't really have anything that can be considered classified-worthy) so that's nice.

HOL = Higher Order Language, it's the Programming used in the New OFPs that allowed the Super Hornet to have quicker updates if needed.
This was introduced w/ Lot 25 Along with the new Mission Processors and Displays.

Block 2 May have started w/ Lot 26 Officially, but Lot 25's Processor and Software Update that started w/ Lot 25 is paves the way for the new Radar, ACS and Decoupled Cockpits.
EWP isn't even in production, no one has paid for them to be produced, same with the CFTs. Boeing designed them, but no one has bought them.
You wont see Block III Specific features on a Block I or a Block II, it's an entirely different cockpit, processors and OFP.

Same reason Lots 21-24 are an Entirely different OFP

Edited December 16, 2022 by SkateZilla

[draconus]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:48 AM, SilentSparrow said:

They could sell the single and 2 seater Rhinos in the same package, and it would be pretty popular.

You still don't get it, do you?

E vs F means different external and internal 3D models and double work for the cockpits, since it's different shape, weight and CoG it's also different flight model so years of work, not exactly "oh, let's also slap 2-crew while we're at it" thing.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

You still don't get it, do you?

E vs F means different external and internal 3D models and double work for the cockpits, since it's different shape, weight and CoG it's also different flight model so years of work, not exactly "oh, let's also slap 2-crew while we're at it" thing.

Couple this with the asking price of a DCS module and one will see why we don't just slap together a two-seater.

ED has standards it needs to maintain.

[Pasquale1986]

In my opinion with the development of an AI in two seaters and the thirst of the naval aviation community for a Rhino two simulate Carrier Air Wings in the mid 2000's timeframe, i think an Block I F-Model would be an amazing addition despite all the limitations that Skate pointet out as comepent as always - thanks for your insights man!

Just my 3 Cents

[SilentSparrow]

If we ask the US Government to unclassify the HOL and ACS via the Freedom of Information Act, will it work? Just a thought.

[SkateZilla]

56 minutes ago, SilentSparrow said:

If we ask the US Government to unclassify the HOL and ACS via the Freedom of Information Act, will it work? Just a thought.

that would be a definite no, it doesn't cover military

[F-2]

1 hour ago, SilentSparrow said:

If we ask the US Government to unclassify the HOL and ACS via the Freedom of Information Act, will it work? Just a thought.

They would have to review it but it’s extremely unlikely they would release it for something in service. Generally you have to to wait decades for a classified system and know what documents you want them to view. Export controlled and proprietary information is worse. I know a few people who have researched WWII jet engines and the government will not release them due to proprietary information. You sort of need to know what you want when you ask. Sometimes things are available in sanitized form and can be requested but not always.

[SilentSparrow]

5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

that would be a definite no, it doesn't cover military

Yeah, considering that, it's a stupid idea to just have to give classified stuff up because they asked nicely. So Lot 29 F/A-18E it is. (No ACS because it's a single seater, No AESA because it's APG-73). 

[Dragon1-1]

I'd be fine with a Lot 24 jet, including two-seaters, combined with some Lot 25 features such as new DDIs (this happens all the time IRL, older jets often get new parts when possible). If you take the two seat version as the baseline, the single seat one will not involve major avionics changes, which is what takes time. Yes, double the FM work and modeling, but modeling is typically not the rate limiting step, and FM, while a complex task, would not be developed in total separation, either.

[SilentSparrow]

1 minute ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I'd be fine with a Lot 24 jet, including two-seaters, combined with some Lot 25 features such as new DDIs (this happens all the time IRL, older jets often get new parts when possible). If you take the two seat version as the baseline, the single seat one will not involve major avionics changes, which is what takes time. Yes, double the FM work and modeling, but modeling is typically not the rate limiting step, and FM, while a complex task, would not be developed in total separation, either.

The HOL and ACS probably includes the new DDIs. I may be wrong, though. Also, that plus a Lot 29 F/A-18E would be golden.

[SilentSparrow]

2 minutes ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

Two seater is also way more heavy on FPS (see Apache and Hind) - so I'd prefer the E, especially since you can perfectly do anything by yourself. No reason a Lot 2X with the APG-73 isn't any less possible than the Legacy was years ago.

Multicrew would be fun tho. Remember all those 2-seater pilots and WSOs in Top Gun: Maverick? Many want to do that too. If we can only use the E version it'd be far less popular. The F would be a huge boost to the popularity of the Super Hornet module, and wouldn't be much more work.

It'd be a travesty if we have an F/A-18E but no F/A-18F to go with it.

Edited December 16, 2022 by SilentSparrow

[SilentSparrow]

1 minute ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

Sure, but the F would be far more work and put a heavier load on most systems for basically no real reason other than multicrew. Ideally we'd get both.  

The F is just copy paste E plus a few new functions. So not that hard, and a travesty if we don't get one.

Then again, ED's done things like NOT give us an F-16CM Block 52 (Literally just a different engine and thats it) so I'm doubtful.

[SkateZilla]

The F is not a Copy Paste of the E, where and why would you assume that?

HOL is the Software Language.

You guys are throwing around so much assumptions and mis-information it's not even funny.

[SilentSparrow]

12 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

The F is not a Copy Paste of the E, where and why would you assume that?

HOL is the Software Language.

You guys are throwing around so much assumptions and mis-information it's not even funny.

Oh, sorry. If it's not a copy paste, I didn't know. I won't use it in the future. I'm sorry for throwing around this misinformation, I'll try not to do it in the future.

So the HOL in the F/A-18E is also classified?

Edited December 17, 2022 by SilentSparrow

[Hammer1-1]

3 hours ago, SilentSparrow said:

Oh, sorry. If it's not a copy paste, I didn't know. I won't use it in the future. I'm sorry for throwing around this misinformation, I'll try not to do it in the future.

So the HOL in the F/A-18E is also classified?

 

Depends on who owns the aircraft and most likely...yes.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[SilentSparrow]

3 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Depends on who owns the aircraft and most likely...yes.

 

What do you mean, depends?

[Hammer1-1]

Like I mentioned a few pages back, some customers dont have all the goodies. They could have a software version thats dumbed down, less features, less capable in some instances...again, not every Super Hornet gets the secret sauce. Guaranteed though if it pertains to the AESA radar or where the technology is limited to export control, yeah its going to be classified.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Hammer1-1