Gun on the Shark?

[159th_Viper]

......Then all of the sudden AAA comes up from the ground 1/2 mile to your left side.

 

:helpsmilie:

 

Help Indeed..............

 

As some have stated - will not matter in which Helo you find yourself in should that happen........It's B.O.H.I.C.A. time!!

 

I personally prefer the 'Stalk and Snipe' role that I envisage that a large portion of my Gameplay will compromise....and as such that 30mm Monster is mounted exactly where I want it :gun_sniper:

[cool_t]

We will just see what happens when we get the sim. I can already guess the many of the attack runs will be from a right side flanking attack. We might need to reopen this thread after we get the game to see what we all think after some combat. Ill guess that some of us might change our minds or change attack runs.

[GGTharos]

I think you'll find that straight in attack runs are the only attack runs.

[diveplane]

firstly the gun is 30 mm caliber it gives you 5 tons of recoil... it is where it supposed to be... secondly there is auto mode which points the heli at the target... so.. go back to practicing... guitar ;)

 

no need to practice guitar here..

[monotwix]

Gun on the shark? I have no idea.

Possibly lost it’s teeth and folded into guns position.

I though I’ve seen every thing, but I’ve seen nothing yet (true story).

Attack runs? How do you plan all that?

Edited August 24, 2008 by monotwix

[Teknetinium]

It's a big gun which requires a lot of recoil compensation. That's all there is to it.

 

If it was only that to it AH-64 would have as big gun, There was many great engineering problems solved to place that huge cannon on the chopper. That's why it was possioned the way it was.

 

This cannon whit high explosive rounds get like machine gun grenade launcher, And probably making as big damage as S-8 rockets.

Even the heaviest tanks as M1/T-90/Marcava/Leopard would feel the punches from 30mm cannon.

 

Then how accurate the Ka-50 30mm cannon is debatable thx to the recoil.

Edited August 24, 2008 by Teknetium

[MoGas]

We will just see what happens when we get the sim. I can already guess the many of the attack runs will be from a right side flanking attack. We might need to reopen this thread after we get the game to see what we all think after some combat. Ill guess that some of us might change our minds or change attack runs.

 

 

You are right cool_t, it is better to wait with such polls until you flew the KA-50 first. But maybe it is to heavy for you.;)

 

greets

[cool_t]

You are right cool_t, it is better to wait with such polls until you flew the KA-50 first. But maybe it is to heavy for you.;)

 

greets

 

Well, its like preparing your self ahead of time befor one jumps into combat. Thinking ahead will give you the edge.

 

:joystick:

[Yellonet]

If it was only that to it AH-64 would have as big gun, There was many great engineering problems solved to place that huge cannon on the chopper. That's why it was possioned the way it was.

 

This cannon whit high explosive rounds get like machine gun grenade launcher, And probably making as big damage as S-8 rockets.

Even the heaviest tanks as M1/T-90/Marcava/Leopard would feel the punches from 30mm cannon.

 

Then how accurate the Ka-50 30mm cannon is debatable thx to the recoil.

Ehm... an S-8 rocket has from about .5 to several kg of explosives, how would a small 30mm shell be able to have the same power?

[hitman]

Its the same round used in the A-10.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/pgu-13.htm

 

I think the Apache uses a 25mm round nowadays. The 30mm chain gun had big problems with jamming rounds and the hopper wouldnt eject brass correctly.

 

Yup...the AH-64A uses an M242 25mm chain gun as well as an M230 30mm.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030319-weapons01.htm

Edited August 24, 2008 by hitman_214th

[arneh]

Its the same round used in the A-10.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/pgu-13.htm

 

Uhm, the Russians don't use US produced ammunition ;) But it's about the same size and weight as the A-10 round.

 

I think the Apache uses a 25mm round nowadays. The 30mm chain gun had big problems with jamming rounds and the hopper wouldnt eject brass correctly.

 

Yup...the AH-64A uses an M242 25mm chain gun as well as an M230 30mm.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030319-weapons01.htm

 

Never heard about an Apache with an M242. And the link you provide doesn't say anything about it. The Apache's M230 is closely related to the M242 (basicly a bigger version of it). Neither have I heard anything about the M230 being prone to jamming. It's a chain gun, and one of it's strong sides is that the chain makes it less prone to jamming.

 

Maybe you're thinking of the Cobra? The M197 has been very prone to jamming, and they did test Cobras with M242. Though didn't go through with it for production, so even the AH-1Z still uses the M197.

 

Edit: correction, the 25mm gun tested on the Cobra wasn't the M242, but the GAU-12 (also used on the AV-8B).

Edited August 25, 2008 by arneh

[hitman]

Uhm, the Russians don't use US produced ammunition ;) But it's about the same size and weight as the A-10 round.

 

 

 

Never heard about an Apache with an M242. And the link you provide doesn't say anything about it. The Apache's M230 is closely related to the M242 (basicly a bigger version of it). Neither have I heard anything about the M230 being prone to jamming. It's a chain gun, and one of it's strong sides is that the chain makes it less prone to jamming.

 

Maybe you're thinking of the Cobra? The M197 has been very prone to jamming, and they did test Cobras with M242. Though didn't go through with it for production, so even the AH-1Z still uses the M197.

 

how would a small 30mm shell be able to have the same power?

Its well known fact that the 30mm chain gun was horrible on jamming. You can find tons of videos of the guns jamming on youtube or liveleak from the first gulf war.

[arneh]

Its well known fact that the 30mm chain gun was horrible on jamming. You can find tons of videos of the guns jamming on youtube or liveleak from the first gulf war.

 

Do you have a link with some reference to that, apart from "search on youtube"? I haven't heard anything about common jamming problems for the M230, so I would like to know more.

 

Wikipedia does mention the jamming problem of the Cobra's M197, but doesn't say anything about M230 problems. But then wikipedia isn't perfect, so if you have other references that would be useful :)

[AlphaOneSix]

The AH-64 currently, and has always, used the M230 30mm cannon. The M242 has never been installed on a production Apache, or even a testbed as far as I know. The M230 gun is not "horrible" on jamming. Like any weapon system, it has had it's fair share of failures, but not enough to be called "horrible".

 

I was working on AH-64's during the first Gulf War (Desert Shield/Storm), and I know of only one case in my particular unit where the gun had a failure while firing. Note that we had a number of problems during testing on the ground, but that's what ground testing is for. Problems were resolved, and the guns worked (with one exception) when they needed to work. For reference, my unit had 18 Apaches and we had the most direct fire anti-tank kills in the 1st Cavalry Division during Desert Storm, and we went through many thousands of 30mm rounds.

[sobek]

Ehm... an S-8 rocket has from about .5 to several kg of explosives, how would a small 30mm shell be able to have the same power?

 

By higher momentum, although you would probably need a mass driver to propel the projectile at sufficient speed:D.

[Teknetinium]

Ehm... an S-8 rocket has from about .5 to several kg of explosives, how would a small 30mm shell be able to have the same power?

 

High explosive rounds detonate as the s-8 do whit lighter force, compere mount of bullets to rockets.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Teknetium

[GGTharos]

Neither S-8 nor a 30mm have enough penetration power to worry a tank's front armor.

[cool_t]

Neither S-8 nor a 30mm have enough penetration power to worry a tank's front armor.

 

I think you might be off on this one boss. 30mm EFP's will trun a tanks's front armor into swiss cheese!!!!

 

:book:

[CAT_101st]

not the HE round mabe the AP round.

[GGTharos]

... Because a 120mm round which the tank fends off on the front armor is weaker than the 30mm eh? :D

 

No, I don't think I'm wrong on this one. The energy imparted from a 30mm round will pretty much always be lower than a main gun of a tank, being a 120mm HEAT, or 120mm KE ;)

 

It might shred TOP armor, and back armor, but not front.

 

I think you might be off on this one boss. 30mm EFP's will trun a tanks's front armor into swiss cheese!!!!

 

:book:

Edited August 27, 2008 by GGTharos

[hitman]

Remember the kinematics thread from a while back? I still stand by that if you have any projectile travelling fast enough, it can penetrate anything. 30mm can penetrate up to 5000 miles of dirt and exit out the other side of the planet traveling at light speeds. Unfortunately, we aint that l337 yet.

[nscode]

S-8 in its main version is a tank buster. Its what it lives for.

[arneh]

Remember the kinematics thread from a while back? I still stand by that if you have any projectile travelling fast enough, it can penetrate anything.

 

Yes, velocity matters. But that doesn't really help the 30mm round's chances, as tank rounds have a muzzle velocity of around 1500 m/s, while 30mm rounds usually have a muzzle velocity of around 1000 m/s. So it loses on velocity too.

Of course, the projectile doesn't hit the target at muzzle velocity, it loses quite a bit along the way. But I somehow doubt that 30 mm round loses velocity that much slower than the 120 mm round that it hits at a higher velocity.

[Yellonet]

Velocity of the projectile only matters for kinetic penetrators, the explosive speed of a hollow charge is likely in the regions of 8000m/s

[sobek]

Velocity of the projectile only matters for kinetic penetrators, the explosive speed of a hollow charge is likely in the regions of 8000m/s

 

But thats just the speed of the shockwave that travels through the explosive, the parts that fly outwards are much slower IIRC.