Hiromachi Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) Tonight during routine flying online I have suffered hydraulic and coolant damage, which prompted me to proceed to nearest airfield and land. Upon landing I noticed lack of hydraulic pressure, so I used emergency handle to extend the landing gear and banked airplane few times to make sure its locked. On final approach engine failed me, but I managed to glide the aircraft and put it down at approx. 100 MPH in three-point position. Airplane landed on front gear first, which extended properly, but as soon as tail touched the ground it started porpoising / bouncing (with rather constant intensity), after few bounces tail came off, plane caught fire and as soon as I stopped, entire plane exploded, killing pilot instantly. This was extremely frustrating as I did everything right, yet have to suffer consequences of the bug. This prompted me to ask for help and record two instances offline which show exactly what is happening: 1. 2. As you can see with emergency wing deployment tail wheel remains retracted, which is wrong. Even DCS P-51 manual indicates that tail wheel should come down on its own: But what follows is even worse. With first touch of the ground (concrete or land) tail starts bouncing (from readings of acceleromter it seems to be +1 / -1 G) and after 2-3 bounces entire tail comes off, center of the aircraft ignites and soon machine explodes. Thus there are few questions which demand an answer: 1. why is tail bouncing in such a manner when there is contact with the ground ? Is collision model correct in rear section ? 2. why is entire tail section so easily detaching ? 3. why does center of the aircraft catch fire in this situation ? (and why is it followed by explosion ?). I have seen a number of aircraft crashes, including a few P-51s, but never seen entire tail tear off of it and I haven't seen bouncing like that. Id rather expect tail to fall and scrape the runway, with tail section being bent. But not completely tear off in such manner, when loads applied on it do not exceed 1+ G (as indicated by accelerometer). Secondly there is no reason why aircraft should catch fire in this part. I made sure that both instantaneous mission and my online flight were with auxiliary fuel tank empty. So there is nothing that should catch fire like that and even more so cause explosion. Wing fuel tanks are far from the section which breaks and since front gear is fine, they are not in contact with runway. This issue is rather important as me and number of friends from my squadron (I presume other people encountered this as well) experience this every time we try emergency landing. It can be replicated almost every time and almost every time leads to death. This prompted us to make landings with gear up which by definition should be significantly more risky. There is a reason why emergency gear release existed and it was used. Current DCS implementation with this bug prevents any effective use of it. I attach the track from offline test. I also have track from multiplayer, but its almost 2 hour long so not sure anyone wishes to wait until its very end. bouncy_bouncy_tail_breakoff.trk Edited March 30, 2021 by Hiromachi 3 1 AMD Ryzen 5900X @ 4.95 Ghz / Asus Crosshair VII X470 / 32 GB DDR4 3600 Mhz Cl16 / Radeon 6800XT / Samsung 960 EVO M.2 SSD / Creative SoundBlaster AE-9 / HP Reverb G2 / VIRPIL T-50CM / Thrustmaster TPR Pendular Rudder Pedals / Audio Technica ATH-MSR7
Campbell Posted March 30, 2021 Posted March 30, 2021 Yes this is happening over and over. It appears that with a manual gear release the tail wheel is not dropping.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 1
Hiromachi Posted March 30, 2021 Author Posted March 30, 2021 Update. I was also made aware that tail bouncing can occure even with simple landing gear retraction: 1 AMD Ryzen 5900X @ 4.95 Ghz / Asus Crosshair VII X470 / 32 GB DDR4 3600 Mhz Cl16 / Radeon 6800XT / Samsung 960 EVO M.2 SSD / Creative SoundBlaster AE-9 / HP Reverb G2 / VIRPIL T-50CM / Thrustmaster TPR Pendular Rudder Pedals / Audio Technica ATH-MSR7
Lurker Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 Nice bug catch. As for the second part of your question, the drag values of the ground in DCS World are way off. In fact the entire ground handling physics are very, very strange and very underdeveloped compared to everything else in the sim. Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2 Joystick.
Wiggy Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 Another example of this happening .. https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkS7R_4qBbVlgZ8eM430ol9oFpKKNg 1
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 31, 2021 ED Team Posted March 31, 2021 I have reported to the team, specifically the tail section coming off to easy. thanks 1 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
worldrecordaviator Posted March 31, 2021 Posted March 31, 2021 I've had two deaths this month on SoW due to this specific issue. Both were after taking minimal damage where there was still hydraulic pressure. Thanks for posting this. -Brannan 2
-0303- Posted April 5, 2021 Posted April 5, 2021 (edited) Reminds me of the bury-tail-after-repair-bounce-up-insanely bug (the bounce is long fixed). It does show tail part coming off easy (too easy?). Interesting note, though just repaired, violent bounce up destroys tail wheel. So tail-plane hits ground without tail wheel dampening. Quote ...Taxi off RWY onto grass at Batumi, retract landing gear. Repair. First just prop bent, then from bad to worse ... and worse (pilot dead). Edited April 5, 2021 by -0303- 1 Intel Core i7 3630QM @ 2.40GHz (Max Turbo Frequency 3.40 GHz) | 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz | 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 635M | 447GB KINGSTON SA400S37480G (SATA-2 (SSD))
71st_Mastiff Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 same issue I have track, happens every time I get flack make it home and then Land perfect and then blow up? Track file https://www.mediafire.com/file/m4dlnzg4nz10zhf/land27afterflakhitvr.zip/file Logs.zip 1 "any failure you meet, is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back", W Forbes. "Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts", "He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," Winston Churchill. MSI z690 MPG DDR4 || i9-14900k|| ddr4-128gb PC3200 |zotac RTX 5080|Game max 1300w|Win11| |turtle beach elite pro 5.1|| ViRpiL,T50cm2||MFG Crosswinds|| VT50CM-plus rotor Throttle || G10 RGB EVGA Keyboard/MouseLogitech || PiMax Crystal VR || 32 Asus||
Magic Zach Posted May 11, 2021 Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) Had it happen again to myself. This issue is still not fixed. The track: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5w739yyxb6jxd7m/SoW - June 23 1944 - AM v100-20210511-115400.trk?dl=0 And here's another instance, also no hydraulic pressure. Why is the tail body of the 51 made of flubber Edited May 11, 2021 by Magic Zach video 1 Hardware: T-50 Mongoose, VKB STECS, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, RTX 3090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB Modules: AH-64D, Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, F-16C, F-15E, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8 Maps: Normandy, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Syria
ED Team NineLine Posted May 11, 2021 ED Team Posted May 11, 2021 I have bumped this report internally as well as added more information. Thanks. 1 1 Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
71st_Mastiff Posted May 31, 2021 Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) I believe it also is a damage model issue; things on the plane are probably catastrophic damaged, if the plane keeps flying until you get landed then all hell breaks loose. track and briefing in the zip. https://www.mediafire.com/file/iexjpxxvmq8rbnp/almolandingafterseverdamage.zip/file Edited May 31, 2021 by 71st_Mastiff 1 "any failure you meet, is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back", W Forbes. "Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts", "He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," Winston Churchill. MSI z690 MPG DDR4 || i9-14900k|| ddr4-128gb PC3200 |zotac RTX 5080|Game max 1300w|Win11| |turtle beach elite pro 5.1|| ViRpiL,T50cm2||MFG Crosswinds|| VT50CM-plus rotor Throttle || G10 RGB EVGA Keyboard/MouseLogitech || PiMax Crystal VR || 32 Asus||
=475FG= Dawger Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 On 5/30/2021 at 8:47 PM, 71st_Mastiff said: I believe it also is a damage model issue; things on the plane are probably catastrophic damaged, if the plane keeps flying until you get landed then all hell breaks loose. track and briefing in the zip. https://www.mediafire.com/file/iexjpxxvmq8rbnp/almolandingafterseverdamage.zip/file We have discovered that if you bailout and run away as fast as possible when the tail breaks off, you can avoid dying in the fire. 1
71st_Mastiff Posted June 13, 2021 Posted June 13, 2021 On 6/11/2021 at 2:27 PM, pmiceli said: We have discovered that if you bailout and run away as fast as possible when the tail breaks off, you can avoid dying in the fire. yes I did discover this. 1 "any failure you meet, is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back", W Forbes. "Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts", "He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," Winston Churchill. MSI z690 MPG DDR4 || i9-14900k|| ddr4-128gb PC3200 |zotac RTX 5080|Game max 1300w|Win11| |turtle beach elite pro 5.1|| ViRpiL,T50cm2||MFG Crosswinds|| VT50CM-plus rotor Throttle || G10 RGB EVGA Keyboard/MouseLogitech || PiMax Crystal VR || 32 Asus||
8KIDD8 Posted June 23, 2021 Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) Bug is still there after 3 month and i would like to add one more bug report related to this problem Tail door and tail gear not drops with pulling hydraulic pressure release handle & lowering the landing gear lever when there's no hydraulic pressure (following instruction from AAF MANUAL 51-127-5 Pilot Training Manual for the Mustang page 82-83) Edited June 23, 2021 by 8KIDD8 3
invis Posted July 2, 2021 Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) Man I can't count how many times i've died due to this on SoW LOL!! Edited July 2, 2021 by invis 1
ED Team NineLine Posted July 2, 2021 ED Team Posted July 2, 2021 Sorry guys, I will give it another shove. Thanks. Just as note, I turned this report into multiple reports for: Tail comes off too easy with tail wheel off Tail Wheel should come down with emergency release of gear Remove instant fire from no tail wheel landing 1 2 Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
=475FG= Dawger Posted July 2, 2021 Posted July 2, 2021 2 hours ago, NineLine said: Sorry guys, I will give it another shove. Thanks. Just as note, I turned this report into multiple reports for: Tail comes off too easy with tail wheel off Tail Wheel should come down with emergency release of gear Remove instant fire from no tail wheel landing Thanks for pushing this one forward a bit more. 2
MJDixon Posted July 6, 2021 Posted July 6, 2021 Hope this gets attention as it's pretty annoying way to end a sortie! 2
ED Team NineLine Posted July 6, 2021 ED Team Posted July 6, 2021 Yes, it is reported as noted. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
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