B-17 wish

[Mogster]

5 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Corsair looks close, and must surely be next…?

Based on previous ED statements, either / both the 109G-6 (?) or 190F-8 might still be on the books

… but with focus seemingly shifting to the Pacific and Nick Grey’s Hellcat comments, I’d expect the next news to be WW2 Marianas and F6F

One for the new year video??

(must admit it does seem difficult to see what the pipeline looks like for warbirds )

 

Nick Grey did seem keen on the Battle of Britain.

I agree there’s a lack of any obvious roadmap. The Mosquito is out now (the AH64 is soon), it’s unclear where ED is going from here. I do get the impression that EDs projects are only being revealed much closer to release currently so stuff may spring into view in an almost EA state.

[Ercoupe]

I don't see how a DCS "Battle of Britain" could possibly be done, seeing the way airplanes are developed for this sim. They aren't produced en masse, they're more or less hand crafted. Very high fidelity. It would take years to build the Spit Mk1. More years, again, to build a Hurricane. A 109E.....etc...Sounds like a fifteen year project. Unless they went the IL-2 route and I just don't see them doing that. 

[Mogster]

1 hour ago, Ercoupe said:

I don't see how a DCS "Battle of Britain" could possibly be done, seeing the way airplanes are developed for this sim. They aren't produced en masse, they're more or less hand crafted. Very high fidelity. It would take years to build the Spit Mk1. More years, again, to build a Hurricane. A 109E.....etc...Sounds like a fifteen year project. Unless they went the IL-2 route and I just don't see them doing that. 

We have the Channel map, it just needs expanding a bit. The Spit I and 109 E are variants of planes we already have, you’d assume that will speed up development significantly. The Hurri would be new, so would take some time. We already have an AI  JU 88. With AI 110, He 111, Ju87 you could make very credible BoB missions. 
 

I don’t see any of that as a unsurmountable challenge, even with EDs usual development rate  It’s 2 variants, 1 new aircraft and 3 new AI, TFC have access to examples of the flyables required.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Mogster

[grafspee]

@Mogster agree. I can see ED Battle of Britain much more then pointless full fidelity B-17

[71st_AH Rob]

5 hours ago, Mogster said:

We have the Channel map, it just needs expanding a bit. The Spit I and 109 E are variants of planes we already have, you’d assume that will speed up development significantly. The Hurri would be new, so would take some time. We already have an AI  JU 88. With AI 110, He 111, Ju87 you could make very credible BoB missions. 
 

I don’t see any of that as a unsurmountable challenge, even with EDs usual development rate  It’s 2 variants, 1 new aircraft and 3 new AI, TFC have access to examples of the flyables required.

 

Except, they take much longer than that. They first showed us a finished model of the AI C-47 four years ago and we still don't have one in game. 

[Mogster]

9 hours ago, 71st_AH Rob said:

Except, they take much longer than that. They first showed us a finished model of the AI C-47 four years ago and we still don't have one in game. 

Aye, I think the C47 has been shoved onto the back burner though.
 

I still think the BoB is a realistic aim for the next couple of years should ED choose to persue it.

There are other advantages. No one talks about it but we have the very nice I-16 from Mr Octopus, the German BoB aircraft would be useful for early Eastern Front Barbarossa scenarios also.

[Danno-ops]

B-17 Sim scheduled on Steam by year end. May be vaporware

[Shrubbo]

It is being released in 3 hours from the time of this post so it does not appear to be vaporware. It does look very arcade like though and not for me. Thanks for the heads up,

Edited November 18, 2021 by Shrubbo

[Rainbowgirl]

I would love to be able to fly 4 engine bomber- either B-17, 24 or 29. Understanding that on  combat server it will attract every enemy human pilot seeking big fat satisfying  target to shoot down...... so not arguing about short combat life expectancy. 1 bomber can`t do much on its own. 3-4 would need to fly together to make sure that at least 1 reaches the target and drop bombs on enemy base/ town/ industrial district to meet objective of the sortie.

  On the other side we all know that Aerobatic Servers are one of most popular and most populated most hours of a day, 7 days a week. 4 engine bomber would provide  hardcore study flying experience for hardcore enthusiasts. Let`s say 2-5 hours around the map flights. Friends or players could jump into cockpit and could swap every 1 hour at the yoke, while the other one could be flight engineer, or do necessary housekeeping while at the same time enjoying the scenery as a passenger. AI could do the job in case of absence of a human at the particular station.

A few days ago I flew as a navigator with another player in Mosquito on Aerobatic Caucasus server. He flew us through valleys and we came up with idea that I would now and then check F-10 view and using ruler providing him with course and distance info towards next base or way point. Then we came with idea of me also keeping an eye on fuel tanks and operate fuel cocks levers. Then he came up with idea that while he will during approach align with runway I could drop landing gear and flaps. So I did......and it was great fun! Between doing bits here and there I enjoyed great scenery and clouds form the seat as we conversated about aviation. He landed us safely and what a feeling of shared achievement and success it was! 

[Callsign112]

Really enjoyed your description of the flight, and agree, I would love to see any/all of the bombers make it to DCS W!

I wish ED would consider increasing the size of the team, it just seems like things are going way too slow.

[=VARP=Ribbon]

Late war...Normandy is missing bombers, it would be nice to have decent modeled theatre!

If no b17 than b26 and one for axis like ju88 or me410.

 

[Veteran66]

Lancaster Mod in work:

 

[Rainbowgirl]

On 12/6/2021 at 7:49 PM, Veteran66 said:

ster Mod in work:

 

Wow!. So hopefully one day we may fly 4 engine bomber. God bless the developers!

[Captain Gaming]

Hello all! 

 

well i didnt expect so much traction on this! i do wanna point out a few things that were said here. 

1. "i would never fly that, its boring and this is a fighter simulator"- well, i understand you dont wanna sit in one, and thats fine! there are plenty of us who would love to sit in the cockpit watching you guys defend us! then having the mossies and p-47 working in the flak cannons as they shoot at us! i get its like flying an airliner(which i love doing) but for us its exciting. 

2. "it would take forever to build and design with how complex it is"- for the planes we have, and knowing the systems in it. the most complex thing would be hydraulics and electrical. everything else on the bird is simple as per the time. and yes, we have a working 4 engine aircraft in the sim! it was even made out of the SDK! so it shows that ED didnt want to put in the effort. but im sure the community would. may it take awhile? maybe. would it cost more than the F-14 or F-18? doubtful. its not nearly as complex.

3. "it would be pointless to add heavy bombers"- if it wasnt for heavy bombers we wouldnt have won the war, heck even  in WW1 when they was just starting out they made a massive impact. 

4. "youd need more than one or else they would get swatted out of the sky"- youre absolutely correct. but when you play, is it usually by yourself or working with your team or friends? combat is a team effort, never a solo gig. 

5. "you could never get the multicrew to work on something that big"- this may be a valid point, but we wouldnt know till we tried, plus the huey is 4 person. alls youd really need for the b-17 is pilot, engineer(or copilot which ever is best) bombardier, and the gunners can be AI unless you take over that spot. that copilot spot can do the bombardier spot and engineer spot. 

 

my final point is that we are a community and everyone deserves to be heard, and i agree with alot of the points, but im also looking for solutions to be made instead of putting up barriers. 

 

i hope you all had a wonderful holiday 

 

Captain Gaming 

[Devil 505]

I have not seen the article from Bignewy, but someone on the Grim Reapers channel said he had confirmed the Channel and Normandy map were going to be combined.  The Eifel Tower and London Clock Tower we saw in the 2022 and Beyond trailer further demonstrates this could be true.  London to Paris and everything else around it will open up a fairly large map, more than enough for strategic bombing in a heavy or medium bomber. 

If you have played the Blue Nose Bastards campaign with the P-51, I find it hard to believe people say there is not enough map to utilize a heavy bomber right now in its current state.  You fly escort for a squadron of B-17s in that campaign and protect them as they makes their run then egress.  It is only a matter of time before we get a bomber.  Might be better to start with a B-25, B-26, or A-26. 

Someone mentioned the C-47, its coming.  Fairly certain this is going to be our cargo module.  Suntsag, the guy who narrates the Mosquito videos for ED had a sneak peak of it at the end of the rockets tutorial.  Video is below

 

I really think the C-47 will be more than just AI.  This will be a solid intro into two engine medium/heavy aircraft.  It would be a natural transition into medium bombers then heavy from there.  ED has already stated that they were wrong about there being no interest in cargo planes which is why they chose to do one.  I think we will find a similar answer to medium and heavy bombers as the WW2 modules progress.  And as far as multiplayer goes, if Anubis can pull off a multiplayer C-130 without the SDK by himself, I feel confident ED can accomplish any WW2 bomber in multiplayer or single player.  Its coming boys, just a matter of when, not if.

[razo+r]

1 hour ago, Devil 505 said:

I have not seen the article from Bignewy, but someone on the Grim Reapers channel said he had confirmed the Channel and Normandy map were going to be combined.  

9L said its going to be an expansion for the Normandy map. 

[Mogster]

2 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

London to Paris and everything else around it will open up a fairly large map, more than enough for strategic bombing in a heavy or medium bomber. 

Not really. It’s only 300mi from London to Paris. It’s better but still a small map.

[Devil 505]

This is a move in the right direction.  Found a decent article about the map expansion.  Here is what the map will supposedly look like.

Here is the article.

https://stormbirds.blog/2021/12/27/ugra-media-is-going-to-expand-dcs-normandy/

Below is a map of the Strategic bombing campaign carried out by the US and UK during the war.  Note how a very good portion of those attacks were conducted within the map scale above.  This is to include all heavy and medium range bombers.  B-17's, 24's, 25's, 26's, Lancasters ect.....  I would love to see this map continue to expand in the future, but with what we are getting now, I think it is fare to say we have plenty of room for bombers and their escorts to have fun.  

 

Here is a good photo showing the range of escort fighters during the war.

[GunnyCook]

It never ceases to amaze me how when someone makes a suggestion for an addition to a sim, there are those who always try to shoot it down(pardon the pun).

Its like the age old bots in a fps argument.....

If you dont like it, dont buy it, but dont take away the "choice".

Multi engine bombers are a must for a WW2 sim. Sure they take time and effort to build, but when one observes the immensity of work involved with A/C such as the A-10 or Apache for example with all their high tech sub systems and weapons, creating a WW2 bomber without all the modern tech would "seem" a much easier project.

And once one was completed would open the door for other greats like the Lancaster, Halifax, PE-8, Do-17 etc.

DCS has so much potential to simulate all theatres (including WW1) nothing else out there even comes close. 

Bring on the heavies, i would buy them all 

 

 

 

[Mogster]

On 1/14/2022 at 12:30 AM, Captain Gaming said:

2. "it would take forever to build and design with how complex it is"- for the planes we have, and knowing the systems in it. the most complex thing would be hydraulics and electrical. everything else on the bird is simple as per the time. and yes, we have a working 4 engine aircraft in the sim! it was even made out of the SDK! so it shows that ED didnt want to put in the effort. but im sure the community would. may it take awhile? maybe. would it cost more than the F-14 or F-18? doubtful. its not nearly as complex.

From other dev’s comments over the years a multi crew heavy bomber is a huge amount of work. Each crew station is in effect a mini cockpit, this is DCS so the punters would expect every switch to be operable and perform it’s function… Some crew stations are in the open inside of the B17, nothing could be hidden you’d have to model the complete interior, no shortcuts here…  That volume of work in a single project is harder to monetise than for multiple single engine fighters. The DCS WW2 singles are $50 each, if a four engine heavy is 4X the work then it’d have to be $200, how many would pay that much?
 

I don’t see this as ED being money grabbing or lazy, they are just running a business and people have to be paid for the work they do and that money comes from people buying the product. I’m not saying ED will or wont make a heavy bomber, it’d be great if they did, but it’s much more of a risk that the current singles. I do see 4 engine heavies as suitable for a mod project as the monetisation issues are absent and people will accept lower fidelity as a starting point.

[AG-51_Razor]

....or they could just model the cockpit and make it a single player a/c and to heck with all the grognards and rivet counters!!

[71st_AH Rob]

As a mod i can see that working but ED would never make it a single player a/c.  In fact I am surprised that no mod group has taken on the project of making a flyable mod for the B-17 included in the assets pack.

[KWard]

On 1/14/2022 at 10:36 PM, GunnyCook said:

It never ceases to amaze me how when someone makes a suggestion for an addition to a sim, there are those who always try to shoot it down(pardon the pun).

Its like the age old bots in a fps argument.....

If you dont like it, dont buy it, but dont take away the "choice".

And the counter-argument is also as old as time: resources are finite, and time spend on one thing means time not spent on another.

Of course people can and should say they want X, and other people can and should say "I don't want resources spend on X, do Y or Z instead". Both are lobbying for what they want, and neither are doing anything wrong. It's a competition, because both sides can't get what they want, but it doesn't have to be and shouldn't be an antagonistic one, on either side.

I'd rather ED not spend resources on a '17, because another company is already making one ('24 too) and there are other things I want ED to do instead.

ETA: now a B-25, on the other hand, I could get behind that.

Edited January 17, 2022 by KWard

[Grievo]

I think a medium bomber would be a better introduction. I would love a B-25, and I would love to see a Fort or a Liberator eventually, but I think it couldn't be best used until the maps were larger. I know they flew many missions in the area of an expanded Normandy map, but the real famous, bloody missions were out to Berlin, Schweinfurt, Bremen etc. 

I also think the RAF bombers would be more suitable in the sim, particularly in MP. They tended to be single pilot, smaller crews, and there would be less requirement for enormous formations, and a player could merely form part of the bomber stream. They also have technology (HS2 etc) that can be modelled, that sims like il-2 can't replicate. We already have the FBVI mossie, we could have the pathfinder version and AI or full module Lancs, stirlings, or halifaxes, or even the humble wellington. 

There's definitely room for heavies in the sim. I would love the maps to be larger, but if the Normandy map is expanding to cover London and Paris, I wonder if the Channel Map will extend North? That could be interesting If it was a shorter (N/S), longer (E/W) map that covered out to Bremen or Hanover... we can dream!

If the C-47 is going to be a flyable though... you know we need Arnhem!

[Mogster]

8 hours ago, Grievo said:

If the C-47 is going to be a flyable though... you know we need Arnhem!

Market Garden is interesting but other than the initial drop there wasn’t really much air war action. Bad weather prevented reinforcement drops and limited air support possibilities, although comms issues played a part in the air support failure also.