Offset Question

[Mnf]

I'm trying the new Offset feature for hornet, but it is confusing me.

fist i tried to make an offset from waypoint 1 to a smoke near waypoint 5. 

from F10 map the smoke is 33.19nm/295 degree from waypoint 1 (Bullseye), when I put this information in waypoint 1 offset, the ATFLIR is not even near the smoke at all (using 295 true).

 

- After multiple tries; I found the best ATFLIR position near the smoke is 330000FT (54.31Nm)/299 degree (true)! but the point is not correct on HSI!

- If i put 54nm/299 (true) in the offset ATFLIR goes far away from the smoke (maybe conversion from nm>>feet in ATFLIR is not correct)

- The best position near waypoint 5 on HSI is 33Nm/290 degree (true)

 

did I miss anything here? 

- Is there a way to put 54.31nm in the UFC, without converting it to feet?

- Is there a way to put 299.5 degree in UFC? 

- Clearing BRG/RNG from the offset waypoint keep the OAP in HSI? don't find a way to remove the OAP from the waypoint

 

other pics in the next post....

other Pics ....

[Swift.]

Looks fine to me in your screenshots. Looks like you got the OAP very near the smoke. And what's this about the HSI being wrong? Both the OAP and the FLIR coords match..

[Mnf]

The last pic, OAP near the smoke with 330000FT (54.31Nm)/299 degree not 33.19nm/295 degree as F10 map says. and when you check the HSI it is far away from waypoint 5 -where the smoke is - (pic not available up)

 

[ExNusquam]

Check OS Elevation. You're looking below the target, when terrain elevation is ~700M.

[Mnf]

1 hour ago, ExNusquam said:

Check OS Elevation. You're looking below the target, when terrain elevation is ~700M.

Thanks ExNusquam, adding elevation make it much better now. 

the smoke is somewhere between 295/296 degree, is there a way to put this in UFC? like 259.5 !

one more question; how to remove the OAP from the waypoint? i tried to clear BRG/RNG from the offset but OAP still there!

[HILOK]

13 hours ago, mnf1980 said:

how to remove the OAP from the waypoint? i tried to clear BRG/RNG from the offset but OAP still there!

would also be interested to know that. entering RNG 0 (zero) basically resets the OAP, but as you say, "OAP" is still indicated on the HSI instead of "WYP"

[Swift.]

I cant see anyway to reset an OAP to WPT. But it shouldn't really matter. OAPs act just like normal waypoints with the execption of the ability to change the designation into an offset designation.

[Santi871]

2 hours ago, HILOK said:

would also be interested to know that. entering RNG 0 (zero) basically resets the OAP, but as you say, "OAP" is still indicated on the HSI instead of "WYP"

 

This is because the OAP is the waypoint. Once offset data is defined for a waypoint, the waypoint is now termed OAP. The location defined by an OAP + offset data is just called Offset.

 

I guess a picture is worth a thousand words:

 

On the HSI with an OAP selected, pressing WPDSG first will designate the OAP, then pressing O/S will designate the offset (or add the offset data to the existing designation, however you want to look at it).

 

[AvroLanc]

21 minutes ago, Santi871 said:

 

 

On the HSI with an OAP selected, pressing WPDSG first will designate the OAP, then pressing O/S will designate the offset (or add the offset data to the existing designation, however you want to look at it).

 

 

'Adding the offset to the existing designation' is actually a cool feature. It enables the use of radar offset bombing; i.e identifying and designation an obvious radar target and applying a pre-measured pre-planned offset to hit a radar invisible target nearby. 

 

The utility of this in DCS is not really relevant since the INS/GPS system doesn't generate any drift in a GPS era, but the procedure can be followed all the same. It works well from the little testing I've done.

Edited May 22, 2021 by AvroLanc

[Smashy]

On 5/22/2021 at 8:07 AM, Santi871 said:

On the HSI with an OAP selected, pressing WPDSG first will designate the OAP, then pressing O/S will designate the offset (or add the offset data to the existing designation, however you want to look at it).

 

Does this still work as expected with 2.7.1.7139?  I spent some time playing around with OAPs today and found that I could slave the ATFLIR between a waypoint and its O/S using the WPDSG and O/S buttons on the HSI but trying to assign offset coordinates to a GPS/INS weapon in TOO mode was not working.  For example:  with a JDAM in TOO mode, pressing the WPDSG button on the HSI will successfully plug in the waypoint coordinates to the weapon but pressing the O/S button does not change the coordinates seen in the JDAM MSN page.  Offset data also remains blank on the MSN page.

 

The only way I've been able to get this to work is to assign the TDC to the targeting pod after pressing the O/S button on the HSI page (assuming one is loaded on the plane).  The TOO coordinates then get updated.  That's a kludge at best since now the weapon is getting coordinates from the pod's designation and not from a waypoint designation.  I tried this with GBU-38, SLAM and JSOW.  Same results for each in TOO mode.

 

tl;dr - the ATFLIR responds as expected when toggling between waypoint and its offset.  TOO mode with GPS weapons don't get the hint when you select a waypoint's offset.

[GumidekCZ]

@Swift. In Super-Hornet and T-45 O/S (OAP) works same as for DCS Hornet, except two things, bith which make absolute sense to work like that:
1)   if Range set to 0.0 nm, AOP returns back to original WP indication on HSI page
2)   when WP coordinates (not elevation) is changed, AOP values are zeroized.

Screen from un-official T-45 documentation - (same description can be found in NAVY P-821 T-45 document):

Other un-official SuperHornet sim page documentation:
The offset (O/S) is created the moment the range from the waypoint is greater than zero. Destroying an offset works in exactly the same way, by setting the offsets range back to zero.

@BIGNEWY PLEASE, can you send this info about OAP reset to the team, if they can ivestigate this?

Edited May 14, 2024 by GumidekCZ

[BIGNEWY]

Hi,

We can not use unofficial sources, or sources different from the aircraft block we are modelling. 

I can show it to them, but can make no promises, and it is very unlikely they would change this based on the above

thank you 

[LastRifleRound]

I reported a bug in offsets a few months ago. The real problem with offsets is designating anything overwrites the offset, killing the purpose for them in the first place.

Let's say INS has drifted. There is a target a known distance and bearing from a radio tower. This radio tower is a waypoint, and we've added the offset data to it. I designate the OAP which should be a large radio tower. I can see in the TPOD the designation is off, so I SCS then slew the TPOD onto it, and hit designate. I then hit offset.

Expected behavior: I am now looking at the target.

Actual behavior: Nothing changes. The offset is now the designation point. The offset data has been changed to reflect the designation. The tail is effectively wagging the dog.

There is nothing in any documentation that suggests slewing a designation on a designated OAP should overwrite it's attendant offset data but that is exactly what it does. This feature cannot be used for its intended purpose until this is fixed.

Edited July 18, 2024 by LastRifleRound

[norman99]

Has the error above been acknowledged or fixed?

[LastRifleRound]

On 1/9/2025 at 10:54 AM, norman99 said:

Has the error above been acknowledged or fixed?

Of course not

[amalahama]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:35 AM, LastRifleRound said:

I reported a bug in offsets a few months ago. The real problem with offsets is designating anything overwrites the offset, killing the purpose for them in the first place.

Let's say INS has drifted. There is a target a known distance and bearing from a radio tower. This radio tower is a waypoint, and we've added the offset data to it. I designate the OAP which should be a large radio tower. I can see in the TPOD the designation is off, so I SCS then slew the TPOD onto it, and hit designate. I then hit offset.

Expected behavior: I am now looking at the target.

Actual behavior: Nothing changes. The offset is now the designation point. The offset data has been changed to reflect the designation. The tail is effectively wagging the dog.

There is nothing in any documentation that suggests slewing a designation on a designated OAP should overwrite it's attendant offset data but that is exactly what it does. This feature cannot be used for its intended purpose until this is fixed.

I think your are expecting the F-16 behaviour in the F-18, but they handle offset points differently. Not sure if what you describe (that's possible in the F-16) is actually applicable to the hornet

[LastRifleRound]

On 1/17/2025 at 8:20 AM, amalahama said:

I think your are expecting the F-16 behaviour in the F-18, but they handle offset points differently. Not sure if what you describe (that's possible in the F-16) is actually applicable to the hornet

Nope, referenced right from the Hornet TACMAN. That's how it's supposed to work.

EDIT: Also, what I described is not how the F16 offset behavior works.

Edited February 14 by LastRifleRound
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