reported earlier Kneeboard folder for Syria map PLS

[imacken]

Unfortunately, @MAESTR0has said that they are too busy with Normandy 2 to deal with testing Syria’s kneeboard fix. 
After all this time? Really unacceptable. 

[inexus]

Too busy to add a few lines supposedly?

@Maestro - perhaps worth drumming up some support in hoggit for asking ED for some support that 3rd party maps needs to bring the most basic things to be accepted going forward. 

[JAGTUX]

Hello pilots.

Thanks for the information. I definitely think that Ugra media products are not for me...

 

[Blackfyre]

On 11/9/2022 at 10:24 PM, inexus said:

Too busy to add a few lines supposedly?

@Maestro - perhaps worth drumming up some support in hoggit for asking ED for some support that 3rd party maps needs to bring the most basic things to be accepted going forward. 

Maybe it would be better to drum up somebody and convince ED that kneeboard folders for maps should be also in %Saved Games% like they are for aircraft. As as I understand, it is literally two lines of code (unfortunately incompatible with integrity check, thus with online servers) :

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Blackfyre

[imacken]

What difference would that make? It’s just this map that is an issue, and that is simply because Ugra haven’t been bothered to add in one line of code in the last 2 years to make this work!

[Hoirtel]

11 hours ago, Blackfyre said:

Maybe it would be better to drum up somebody and convince ED that kneeboard folders for maps should be also in %Saved Games% like there are for aircraft. As as I understand, it is literally two lines of code (unfortunately incompatible with integrity check, thus with online servers) :

 

 

I have to say I think this would be really helpful. It doesn't excuse Urga's terrible interest in adding this, but I have to have a whole list of shortcuts to be able to manage the kneeboards. As there is no support inside the software it is basically a minor game modification and one that has to be done in the core files at that. 

The big difference is that slow repairs wouldn't ask me if I wanted to remove all these alien files it finds. 

Kneeboard still is the massive hole in DCS imo. It surprises me all the time that we have so much attention to detail in some areas yet this is totally ignored. How many real combat flights are flown without taking documentation. None!

I also understand that there might be a full solution in the pipeline but ED needs to learn to implement quick interim functionality to plug these holes.

[imacken]

52 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

 It doesn't excuse Urga's terrible interest in adding this, but I have to have a whole list of shortcuts to be able to manage the kneeboards. As there is no support inside the software it is basically a minor game modification and one that has to be done in the core files at that. 

Can you please explain what you mean by that? Sounds interesting. 

[Hoirtel]

37 minutes ago, imacken said:

Can you please explain what you mean by that? Sounds interesting. 

Nothing special really, in my documents files I have a DCS folder where I store all my DCS related files. In there I have created folder shortcuts to each of the kneeboard folders within the core game terrain files. Just allows me to quick access to them without having to work through the core files every time. I often add to these as I can't be bothered to extract a miz file and add them into a specific mission, that's another part of the kneeboard rant! I also like to delete the default airfield charts that I never use (where these exist). These get replaced on repair or patch. 

I use shortcuts all the time. My day job would be excruciating without them! You could put them on desktop or quick access too - totally personal preference. One tip, though is rename them to include the terrain name as they all default to just "Kneeboard - Shortcut" I also have all the aircraft saved games ones in the same place.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Hoirtel

[Raviar]

maybe we can be more patient, as BigNewy mentioned seems there is a prerequisite development to fix it, I assume its beyond dev team decision atm and more of PO priorities and feature ranks and priorities, for the meantime I transferred all of my kneeboards to plane specific or mission specific kneeboard, thats not a good solution but at least I can get my required kneeboards

[imacken]

4 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Nothing special really, in my documents files I have a DCS folder where I store all my DCS related files. In there I have created folder shortcuts to each of the kneeboard folders within the core game terrain files. Just allows me to quick access to them without having to work through the core files every time. I often add to these as I can't be bothered to extract a miz file and add them into a specific mission, that's another part of the kneeboard rant! I also like to delete the default airfield charts that I never use (where these exist). These get replaced on repair or patch. 

I use shortcuts all the time. My day job would be excruciating without them! You could put them on desktop or quick access too - totally personal preference. One tip, though is rename them to include the terrain name as they all default to just "Kneeboard - Shortcut"

Can I ask, why don’t you just use a mod manager to do all that? Before any DCS update, I just one click uninstall my kneeboard mods in Open Mod Manager, then one click to install again. 
Yes, deleting those Caucasus and Nevada airfield files is always the first thing I do after any update!

7 minutes ago, Raviar said:

maybe we can be more patient, as BigNewy mentioned seems there is a prerequisite development to fix it, I assume its beyond dev team decision atm and more of PO priorities and feature ranks and priorities, for the meantime I transferred all of my kneeboards to plane specific or mission specific kneeboard, thats not a good solution but at least I can get my required kneeboards

More patient? We’ve been waiting 2 years for this one line fix!

[Hoirtel]

3 minutes ago, Raviar said:

maybe we can be more patient, as BigNewy mentioned seems there is a prerequisite development to fix it, I assume its beyond dev team decision atm and more of PO priorities and feature ranks and priorities, for the meantime I transferred all of my kneeboards to plane specific or mission specific kneeboard, thats not a good solution but at least I can get my required kneeboards

Umm. Well yes totally happy to be patient for a decent solution, but the current state of kneeboards is a complete workaround so a tiny bit of help to make it work the same as all the others is what we are after. Just with this one map! the South Atlantic map  had this folder on day one and that's newer? I can't see what's different about the development of the Syria map.

2 minutes ago, imacken said:

Can I ask, why don’t you just use a mod manager to do all that? Before any DCS update, I just one click uninstall my kneeboard mods in Open Mod Manager, then one click to install again. 

Just never bothered really. Maybe I'll look into it. I don't really use many mods and usually delete anything I don't use.

Guess I am so used to using shortcuts it just came naturally. I don't really have too much issue with doing it this way as long as the folders work!

[imacken]

Well, guess what? Yes, another update has passed and no sign of the one line fix to the Syria map.

This is beyond belief now @MAESTR0.  If you say you haven't got the time to test the fix because of Normandy 2, then please send me the file, and I'll test it out for you.

[Stackhouse]

How does this take a year and a half to implement? Wtf?

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, Stackhouse said:

How does this take a year and a half to implement? Wtf?

 

easy .. the team is working on the upcoming Normandy 2.0 map .. after its release they might came back and add this to Syria (hopefully)

[imacken]

Don’t really know why you are being so kind to UGRA. They have made promises to publish the one-line fix long before Normandy 2 took over. 
In any case, this is hardly a resource draining task!

[Hoirtel]

5 hours ago, imacken said:

Don’t really know why you are being so kind to UGRA. They have made promises to publish the one-line fix long before Normandy 2 took over. 
In any case, this is hardly a resource draining task!

Totally agree. I would happily have one less YT vid of Normandy 2 to get the kneeboard folder instead. Time is clearly that stretched for @MAESTR0 

I really want to not buy the new map... But it will be 10 dollars so I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't.

 

[imacken]

Funnily enough, not included in today's patch either.

[Raviar]

On 11/18/2022 at 7:41 PM, imacken said:

Funnily enough, not included in today's patch either.

it would not be until few months after Normandy 2 I guess

[imacken]

39 minutes ago, Raviar said:

it would not be until few months after Normandy 2 I guess

Why do you say that? 

[Raviar]

11 hours ago, imacken said:

Why do you say that? 

because BigNewy clearly mentioned there is per-requisite development prior to fix the issue, and  the current priority is Normandy 2, so I think they will be back to Syria development after Normandy2, and it should be after that "per-requisite" issue/feature development  on Syria, so I guess that wouldn't happen anytime soon no matter how we eager to get it fix or write in this thread

[imacken]

Thanks, but I think you're missing the point. 

We have been waiting over 2 years for this one-line fix. Back in August, @MAESTR0 told me that the fix was made internally but that it would have to wait till the October update.  That deadline passed with no update, and then he told me that they needed to test it, but they were too busy with Normandy 2 to do it.  (I offered to test it for him, but I didn't receive a reply.)

This is a trivial fix that should have been in this map from day one like all others (except Marianas, but that was quickly fixed).

We can all be nice and polite about this, and talk about continuing patience (for another 2 years?), but really, this is poor from UGRA.

[Raviar]

1 hour ago, imacken said:

Thanks, but I think you're missing the point. 

We have been waiting over 2 years for this one-line fix. Back in August, @MAESTR0 told me that the fix was made internally but that it would have to wait till the October update.  That deadline passed with no update, and then he told me that they needed to test it, but they were too busy with Normandy 2 to do it.  (I offered to test it for him, but I didn't receive a reply.)

This is a trivial fix that should have been in this map from day one like all others (except Marianas, but that was quickly fixed).

We can all be nice and polite about this, and talk about continuing patience (for another 2 years?), but really, this is poor from UGRA.

I cant agree more, no doubt, I have this map since day 1, I am very agree with the last sentence, but what can we do except not to buy the Normandy2(their support is same in Normandy1), seems the prioritization of the dev team is not what we(as client) expect (i dont want judge them but to me they are very unprofessional considering I myself developer for over 15 years!), I wonder how SLA works with ED! I assume this

13 hours ago, Raviar said:

it would not be until few months after Normandy 2 I guess

so I can deal with situation, because I need all my IFR/VFR Charts/kneeboards as well

Edited November 20, 2022 by Raviar

[Minsky]

My guess is that they have a bunch of other fixes and improvements for Syria waiting to be finished, tested, compiled into an actual map, and then sent to ED for reviewing.

And, most likely, they cannot implement and release just this particular fix without screwing up their pipeline / versioning system / whatnot.

I'd say we should muster up whatever left of our patience and wait for the next Syria (not DCS!) update.

[imacken]

1 hour ago, Minsky said:

My guess is that they have a bunch of other fixes and improvements for Syria waiting to be finished, tested, compiled into an actual map, and then sent to ED for reviewing.

And, most likely, they cannot implement and release just this particular fix without screwing up their pipeline / versioning system / whatnot.

I'd say we should muster up whatever left of our patience and wait for the next Syria (not DCS!) update.

I give up. We are talking about a one line trivial fix here that should have been there since day one! 
It’s hardly going to stretch the resources of the mighty UGRA to test it out. 
See my last post for the ongoing broken promises. 

[Minsky]

It's not about the number of lines.

To deliver this trivial fix, they must first compile the map from the current dev build.

This build certainly has other untested fixes and unfinished enhancements.

If they just compile it "as is", we'll get a map with a bunch of bugs. So we have to wait for them to clean the things up and make the new version good enough for the release.

At least, this is how I understand their process (could be wrong).

Does this excuse the delay? Of course not.

Does it make publishing this simple fix more challenging than it seems? Sadly, yes.