any news on sim thread multi-threading?

[HoBGoBLiNzx3]

5 hours ago, draconus said:

You might want to look more at performance rather than date of release or marketing series name.

Ex. 1080Ti is still powerful card, pretty decent even for VR, depending on headset. It may live much longer with DCS future core updates while still being better than newer 2060, 2070, 3050 and 3060.

That wasn't my implication. Still even lower spec'd cards can generally get better performance the next year as the chipsets and architecture improve. 

Plus, I was the one who thought it might actually be featured in the GTX series.... 

Got on Georgia at War last night and the horizon line where the clouds met the ocean off the supercarrier looked liked a 5 year old with pastels painted it. Had to turn it off. Something really needs to be done with it... but. here we are.

Edited September 23, 2022 by HoBGoBLiNzx3

[BeastyBaiter]

I don't think graphics quality is really the issue for VR, the problem is the CPU bottleneck. I have an RX 6950 and it rarely goes above 50% usage in VR, the problem is the CPU maxing out a single thread and being unable to feed the GPU graphics calls fast enough. My hope is that Vulcan + multi-threading corrects this problem. I do think that change needs to be made the #1 priority. It will incur a short term cost, but the reality is that even in 2d, continuing with DX11 and single threading (+half of one for sound) will kill DCS as a viable product. DX11 is truly ancient at this point and single threading is something that belongs in a history book. My guess is, within a year or less, GPU makers will drop support for DX11. That doesn't mean it won't work, but they will put about as much effort in as they do for DX9 on Windows XP, which is to say none.

[SkateZilla]

Most mid-range and 3 Generation Old Cards will likely see performance increases.

because there's 2 bottlenecks, caused by 1 piece of hardware that will be fixed with the Multi-Core and Vulkan combo.

I've posted the same thing in dozens of threads, but there's is likely what you are experiencing, and what will change with those 2 major updates.

Vulkan
Removes the DX11 API CPU Overhead, the more objects in a scene, the more the DX11 API Gets bogged down waiting for a single CPU Thread to process all the draw calls.

Symptoms:
As object count grows, GPU Usage and FPS Drop, as a result of the GPU having to Wait for the CPU Thread to process all the draw and GPU commands in the DX11 API Before sending them to the GPU. DirectX technically runs 5 threads w/ DCS, 1 Thread is part of the DCS.exe, the other 4 are DX11 API and Driver Threads, but DX11 doesnt actually use all 5 threads at the same time, as many DX11 API Commands and functions are not able to be processed asynchronously, Sure MS Says DX11_1's command layer is multi-threaded, but the base functions of DirectX11_x are not able to be multi-threaded very well due to the core of DX11 and how it was designed. 

Result of Move to Vulkan:
GPU instructions go directly to the GPU and are processed asynchronously by the GPU, allowing the GPU to stay fully utilized in complex scenes, resulting in higher and more stable utilization and frames per second, Vulkan itself allows for modular integration of Features as well (ie DLSS, FSR, 

The Long Dev Time:
Writing a Graphics Engine from Scratch isnt easy, most developers license a prebuilt engine and integrate their content into it, the larger Developers spend up to 10 years developing engines behind the scenes. and releasing it to be licensed ie. Unreal, Unity etc.

 

Multi-Core

Having the DCS Sim Process on a Single thread, forces 1 thread to process everything, this leads to other items waiting for other processes to finish, the larger missions will exhibit the CPU thread having large overhead as AI Functions (Pathing, Solving for every moving object), Physics (Object Trajectories, Interactions), Flight Models, DirectX Command Layer, Weather/Environment, Track Recording, Sensors (Radars, RWRs, IFR, etc etc, of every unit, Aircraft, Ground, weapon). Network (Packets, Connection, Pings),  UI Elements, User Input Commands etc.

Symptoms:
In Large missions with significant units, the DCS.exe Process can get bogged down with all the AI, Sensor, and Physics data alone, Moving to MP, you now have to do all that, and have to sync Player Units, and process incoming and outgoing network packets. Audio and Subtitles can be out of sync with the action, AI movements can be out of sync with the action, Tracks will playback with inputs and movements out of sync or completely fubar'd etc etc.

Result of the Multi-Threading,
Most of the items will be processed asynchronously, allowing everything to process quicker and more efficiently without having to wait for another to finish.

The Long Dev Time:
DCS had already started being re-written for Multiple Threads, the Sounds Processing was moved to it's own thread long ago, dividing a large simulation into multiple threads takes time and patience, as they must be divided, written and properly synced.

 

 

I know everyone is tired of hearing patience,

But they are both coming, as stated earlier, elements are in internal testing.

There are no distractions/divergent projects, the teams working on the core are working on the core,

Modules, Aircraft etc are all being worked on by separate teams.

Edited September 23, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Brainfreeze]

On 9/23/2022 at 3:25 PM, BeastyBaiter said:

I don't think graphics quality is really the issue for VR, the problem is the CPU bottleneck. I have an RX 6950 and it rarely goes above 50% usage in VR, the problem is the CPU maxing out a single thread and being unable to feed the GPU graphics calls fast enough. My hope is that Vulcan + multi-threading corrects this problem. I do think that change needs to be made the #1 priority. It will incur a short term cost, but the reality is that even in 2d, continuing with DX11 and single threading (+half of one for sound) will kill DCS as a viable product. DX11 is truly ancient at this point and single threading is something that belongs in a history book. My guess is, within a year or less, GPU makers will drop support for DX11. That doesn't mean it won't work, but they will put about as much effort in as they do for DX9 on Windows XP, which is to say none.

???   I play MP mostly and my 3080 is clearly the bottleneck in my system with frametime about 2x that of the CPU

[draconus]

It's normal for users to have different bottlenecks even with the same hardware. This highly depends on the settings and missions. Set 4K+4xMSAA or 2xSSAA and you'll kill GPU. Move whole AI tank division through a city and you'll kill CPU. And whole lot of different other situations, objects and map places inbetween. Clear, right?

[SkateZilla]

4K with 2x SSAA is 16K Pipeline Rendering.

The highest any Consumer GFX Engine out today can do is 12K, the next GTA running on RAGE9 Engine will be the first to support 16K.

Running 16K pipeline rendering on a DX11 Engine, you lucky you don't cause DX11 to have a Stroke, or run at all considering it's above the DX11 Maximum Resolution limit.

[Hiob]

Wasn't SSAA deactivated for 4K a time ago? IIRC it has no effect when the resolution is set to 4K.

[BeastyBaiter]

10 hours ago, Brainfreeze said:

???   I play MP mostly and my 3080 is clearly the bottleneck in my system with frametime about 2x that of the CPU

It's very easy to add enough PD to kill any GPU, throw in some AA on top of that and you can have all kinds of GPU bottlenecks. However, backing it off slightly, you will find that DCS is capped at 40-45 FPS in VR at low altitude even if you bottom out the graphics in most missions whether single player or multiplayer. I've hopped in a few MP missions where the framerate ran at about 20 fps due to the CPU bottleneck and our CPU's are basically identical in terms of performance.