correct as is Awacs blindstops when orbiting

[Mike_Romeo]

Hello ED team,

 

I'm a moderator on the Growling Sidewinder server and after getting several bug reports about disappearing datalink contacts, I started my own investigations. I set up a single player mission with a awacs and many bandits around him to see what happens.



The results are quite interesting. I first started with my main plane the JF-17 and its seems like the awacs has a blind spot on his 10-11 clock position when orbiting. You can see that the Awacs doesn't fly a perfect orbit and every time it fly straight, all bandits are visible but if the Awacs is orbiting, the bandits on his 10-11 clock position disappears. I repeated the test several times and all awacs have this blind spot.
 

Awacs blindspot.trk

The Bug become really interesting when I started to check the issue with different aircraft's. I just changed my aircraft and therefor I should get the same result like in the test before but instead of having just one blind spot, I got TWO now in the Flankers. Repeated the test several times with the same results. This bug is not only awacs, its also plane dependent.
 

Awacs blindspot Flanker.trk

I hope you can fix the bug soon. Thank you for your time and effort.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Mike_Romeo

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

 

when you set the AWACS in a circle orbit it will block part of the radar return with its wing in the turn, its best to use a race track or straight path for best coverage. 

 

thank you

[Mike_Romeo]

I'm sorry @BIGNEWY but that is not a valid answer. It also doesnt explain why the Flankers are getting a second blindspot and other airframes dont. There is no option in the mission editor to set a race-track like the DCS manual suggests. Do you know if its possible to limit the awacs bank angle in the orbit ? If not, I would like to request a feature that let us limit it.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Mike_Romeo

[Flappie]

4 hours ago, Mike_Romeo said:

There is no option in the mission editor to set a race-track like the DCS manual suggests.

 

Here's what I do:

1. Place an AWACS unit on the map
2. Create one waypoint
3. Assign a "Switch Waypoint - to waypoint 0" advanced action to waypoint 1.

AWACS cycling between two waypoints.miz

[Mike_Romeo]

Thank you @Flappie <3

[Tippis]

5 hours ago, Mike_Romeo said:

There is no option in the mission editor to set a race-track like the DCS manual suggests.

Yes there is.

It's just not immediately obvious how it works.

 

On a flight, set two waypoints as the anchor points for your race track.

On the first of these waypoints, set the action Perform Task > Orbit, check the “racetrack” box. It is this combination that makes the racetrack work.

 

You need both waypoints to define the track, but only one action. You also should not set any other actions on the second race track anchor point.

 

You often also want to set some kind of stop condition — a specified time, duration, or trigger flag depending on your needs — for the orbit action, otherwise the AI will happily follow the route until it goes bingo, and then fail to fuel manage its way back to an airport. If you want any specific settings (reactions to threats, invisibility, radar usage and all that), it's better to set that up on the waypoint immediately preceding the orbit waypoint. Basically, keep the two racetrack-defining WPs as clean as possible.

 

You can also use triggered actions to break the flight out of the racetrack loop, using “skip to waypoint” to send them off to where it needs to go next.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Tippis

[okopanja]

On 9/8/2021 at 9:45 AM, BIGNEWY said:

when you set the AWACS in a circle orbit it will block part of the radar return with its wing in the turn, its best to use a race track or straight path for best coverage. 

Not that I am an expert in AWACS operation, but wouldn't just about any part of aircraft block the radar beam either going out or being received?

 

In this case wings would have to block zones on left and right that are nearer, due to the wings being much closer to the radar dish.

 

However consider that normal flying position is somewhat upwards, and that the fuselage from nose toward dish would also block a corridor along current flight path?

 

The rear side would be less affected, but am I right to conclude that AWACS has actually a least 4 dead zones (forward, read, 2 sides), and that in order to monitor required area it has to be positioned that the area is most of the time outside of the dead zones.

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by okopanja

[okopanja]

I was curious to find out how the obstacles affect the performance of the antenna on AWACS. This made me wonder about the design of the antenna. I managed to find the diagram. I assume it is actually the grid of antennas from one side to another side of the dish.

 

Based on the common sense (warning: no radar or antenna expert) there should be 4 areas of interest (again no radar/antenna expert)

- front weakening area (where some elements would not be able to receive, but unsure on how much this would really reduce the performance)

- back weakening area

- left-front side area of full obstruction/weakening

- right-front side area of full obstruction/weakening

 

@Mike_Romeoif I am correct, then the AWACS might be deployed way to near to the conflict zone on that server. If you wish to reduce the blind zones during turning it would need not be located far more away from the area of interest. The drawback of this are deeper radar shadows produced by the terrain, e.g. more place to hide.

[Machalot]

On 9/8/2021 at 7:29 AM, Mike_Romeo said:

I'm sorry @BIGNEWY but that is not a valid answer. It also doesnt explain why the Flankers are getting a second blindspot and other airframes dont. There is no option in the mission editor to set a race-track like the DCS manual suggests. Do you know if its possible to limit the awacs bank angle in the orbit ? If not, I would like to request a feature that let us limit it.

 

It seems like the blind spot that is supposedly caused by the wing is on the opposite side. I assumed it would be caused by the raised wing blocking the antenna line of sight, but it's in the direction of the lower wing. What's the deal? 

[gmangnall]

There seems to be a bug...but not the one mentioned. AWACS does have blindspots, especially when mid turn. This is NOT a bug......but all aircraft should see the same. Mid turn you would have a blind spot in the wing area....but potentially all around the sides as the andenna is pointing down toward the ground on one side and to the moon on the other side - the radar only has a limited elevation.

[GumidekCZ]

Do the same blind spot appear with KJ-2000 Chineese AWACS with its AESA radar?

[skywalker22]

I had some issues yesterday on GS server, so I went investigating into Link16 communication with a connection of AWACS in DCS. And I found this thread through Discord.

I took this same track Mike made it (in 1st post of this thread), just that I set the flying path of E-3A AWACS plane in a straight line. I used F-16 and F/A-18, and this is the result:

PS: I guess I removed video from YT, sorry, but DL16 is buggy.

Edited April 20, 2022 by skywalker22

[skywalker22]

The problem with in AWACS (or DL16) is not only when AWACS airplane is circulating. Even when flying perfectly straight, DL16 is loosing connection - which in my opinion should not happen.

So would be welcome if ED team take a nother look into it.