missing info Engine failure

[Pampi]

I know of the fuel leak but also got these failures with no apparent reason.

 

["failure"] = "ENG0_ADVANCED_IGNITION_TIMING",
            ["failureDisplayName"] = "Engine #1 erroneous ignition timing induced damage",
            
        },
        [60] = {
            ["failure"] = "ENG0_DAMAGED_BEYOND_REPAIR",
            ["failureDisplayName"] = "Engine #1 damaged beyond repair",
            
        },
        [61] = {
            ["failure"] = "CTRL_AILERON_ROD_MAJOR_DAMAGE",
            ["failureDisplayName"] = "Aileron control crippled",

Mossie debreifing.log

[Full Refund]

Had this happen last night.  Flew for a bit over an hour and don’t think I exceeded any engine parameters.  I generally kept boost at 8 and RPMs at 2600.  Supercharger to auto.  

On the return flight I climbed to 20k feet before descending to the airfield. Came close to 400 mph during the descent so maybe that affected something.  

Leveled out around 3,000 feet and slowed to 200 in preparation for landing. Then my starboard engine abruptly cut out.  I feathered the prop and prepared to land on one engine but about three minutes later the port engine died.  I managed to “land” in a field.

After ending the mission I found the same errors for ignition timing followed immediately by the “engine damaged beyond repair” notation.  
 

Not sure if this is a bug or operator error. 
 

 

[303_Kermit]

Same here. P-47D30 Early Straight flight, without dive
-2300rpm
-manifold 50
-oil pressure "blue", oil temp "blue", air temp intercooler "blue"

loud "kaboom" from behind a cockpit:
["failureDisplayName"] = "Engine #1 erroneous ignition timing induced damage", ["t"] = 10579.065, ["target"] = "P-47D-30bl1", ["targetMissionID"] = "596", ["targetPilotName"] = "=Crow=Kermit", ["target_coalition"] = 2, ["target_object_id"] = 16777475, ["target_unit_type"] = "P-47D-30bl1", ["target_ws_type1"] = 1, ["type"] = "failure", ["weapon"] = "Aw shoot.",
 

second kaboom behind a cockpit:
["failure"] = "ENG0_DAMAGED_BEYOND_REPAIR", ["failureDisplayName"] = "Engine #1 damaged beyond repair", ["t"] = 10579.065, ["target"] = "P-47D-30bl1", ["targetMissionID"] = "596", ["targetPilotName"] = "=Crow=Kermit", ["target_coalition"] = 2, ["target_object_id"] = 16777475, ["target_unit_type"] = "P-47D-30bl1", ["target_ws_type1"] = 1, ["type"] = "failure", ["weapon"] = "Aw shoot.",

"boost" throttle goes down:
["failure"] = "ENG0_MAIN_BEARING_DAMAGED", ["failureDisplayName"] = "Failure.ENG0_MAIN_BEARING_DAMAGED", ["t"] = 10579.065, ["target"] = "P-47D-30bl1", ["targetMissionID"] = "596", ["targetPilotName"] = "=Crow=Kermit", ["target_coalition"] = 2, ["target_object_id"] = 16777475, ["target_unit_type"] = "P-47D-30bl1", ["target_ws_type1"] = 1, ["type"] = "failure", ["weapon"] = "Aw shoot.",

engine stops:

["initiatorMissionID"] = "596", ["initiatorPilotName"] = "=Crow=Kermit", ["initiator_coalition"] = 2, ["initiator_object_id"] = 16777475, ["initiator_unit_type"] = "P-47D-30bl1", ["initiator_ws_type1"] = 1, ["t"] = 10600.145, ["type"] = "engine shutdown",

P-47 CKBWL.log

Edited January 14, 2023 by 303_Kermit

[KoN]

I'm trial the mossy now . Find that engine just goes . Temps are good not exceeded 2700 rpm or gone over 9+ psi . Very odd damage. 

A few hits will cause engines to FAIL easily. 

This was a very tough plane . 

Or maybe WWII AAA far to accurate. 

[Skewgear]

6 hours ago, KoN said:

I'm trial the mossy now . Find that engine just goes . Temps are good not exceeded 2700 rpm or gone over 9+ psi . Very odd damage. 

A few hits will cause engines to FAIL easily. 

This was a very tough plane . 

Or maybe WWII AAA far to accurate. 

Are you warming up the engines by paying attention to the oil pressure immediately after start? Keep it below 90-100, even if that means taking 5 minutes to very slowly and gently increase the power until you can select 1,000-1,200rpm with oil pressure remaining below 105 psi.

(The engines are wrongly modelled - oil pressure shouldn't exceed 80-90 at all, but we have what we have. Oil temp of 40 degrees before selecting takeoff power will keep you safe)

In flight, are you watching the radiator temps? 125 C is your maximum, I open the rads and back off the power at 110+.

Yes, a wooden aeroplane is very easily damaged by cannon fire. No, the Mosquito didn't have a reputation as a flying tank like the P-47.

[grafspee]

@303_Kermit 50 MAP for 2300 rpm is way too much, for 50 MAP you need to have 2700rpm.

Edited May 21, 2023 by grafspee

[Mermoz]

On 1/14/2023 at 6:11 PM, 303_Kermit said:

Same here. P-47D30 Early Straight flight, without dive
-2300rpm
-manifold 50
-oil pressure "blue", oil temp "blue", air temp intercooler "blue"
 

 

you overboosted your engine, meaning you had it develop high power levels without it needed to push the propeller blade into a rotation enough to use the energy it developped causing the turbo to turn faster than it should (the turbo is powered by the exhaust gas, which would be where most of the power your engine doesn't use would be spent to).

when you do that in a turbocharged vehicule (same with cars if you push the turbo without driving by reving the engine) you tend to blow the turbo up.... (my dad actually manage to have his car turbo split in two once)

The fact you said the boom sound came from behind is a big clue here. the turbo on the P47 is in the fuselage behind the cockpit

 

it is why in turbocharged planes the rule of "Manifold down before RPM down, and RPM Up before Manifold up" is to be absolutely respected.  The rule actually applies for non turbocharged planes, but on turbocharged planes, it result in overboosting the engine and the death of your turbo.

And it won't show on temperatures, the turbo will break before your temps have time to rise significantly enough for you to see.

You will have no indication it's coming. It's why on some airplanes like a Piper PA28R Turbow arrow, you have a lamp lighting up if you overboost the engine.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Mermoz

[grafspee]

@Mermoz If he used 50" MAP at 2300rpm the turbo rpm was lower then same MAP at 2700rpm.

What he done, he over boosted engine, which leads to detonations or knock which damage pistons and engine died, nothing to do with blowing up turbo.

Lower engine rpm mean lower turbo rpm for same MAP.

Edited May 21, 2023 by grafspee

[KoN]

3 hours ago, Skewgear said:

Are you warming up the engines by paying attention to the oil pressure immediately after start? Keep it below 90-100, even if that means taking 5 minutes to very slowly and gently increase the power until you can select 1,000-1,200rpm with oil pressure remaining below 105 psi.

(The engines are wrongly modelled - oil pressure shouldn't exceed 80-90 at all, but we have what we have. Oil temp of 40 degrees before selecting takeoff power will keep you safe)

In flight, are you watching the radiator temps? 125 C is your maximum, I open the rads and back off the power at 110+.

Yes, a wooden aeroplane is very easily damaged by cannon fire. No, the Mosquito didn't have a reputation as a flying tank like the P-47.

I am mainly doing Auto start . Temps look good within tables ,  2600rpm - 2700rpm psi 7 - 9+ in normal flight . The odd full throttle when in combat . I think its when I've taken a hit from The all seeing eye - AAA that the engines are just not making the trip back home . Still testing . 

Is there any fixes coming or is this dead in the water . 

[303_Kermit]

6 hours ago, Mermoz said:

you overboosted your engine, meaning you had it develop high power levels without it needed to push the propeller blade into a rotation enough to use the energy it developped causing the turbo to turn faster than it should (the turbo is powered by the exhaust gas, which would be where most of the power your engine doesn't use would be spent to).

when you do that in a turbocharged vehicule (same with cars if you push the turbo without driving by reving the engine) you tend to blow the turbo up.... (my dad actually manage to have his car turbo split in two once)

The fact you said the boom sound came from behind is a big clue here. the turbo on the P47 is in the fuselage behind the cockpit

 

it is why in turbocharged planes the rule of "Manifold down before RPM down, and RPM Up before Manifold up" is to be absolutely respected.  The rule actually applies for non turbocharged planes, but on turbocharged planes, it result in overboosting the engine and the death of your turbo.

And it won't show on temperatures, the turbo will break before your temps have time to rise significantly enough for you to see.

You will have no indication it's coming. It's why on some airplanes like a Piper PA28R Turbow arrow, you have a lamp lighting up if you overboost the engine.

 

No... I solved a problem long time ago. The reason was an overboost 2-3 min before.  One can ride with 50lb and 2300-2550 without any restrictions. (other than temperatures of cyl. heads, and carb.air)

To fly P-47 at it's full potential I bought 747 throttle quadrant. Problem solved.

Edited May 21, 2023 by 303_Kermit

[Bozon]

On 5/21/2023 at 9:35 AM, Skewgear said:

Yes, a wooden aeroplane is very easily damaged by cannon fire. No, the Mosquito didn't have a reputation as a flying tank like the P-47.

That is inaccurate, the mosquito was considered very durable to combat damage - structurally. The engines are Merlins so they are vulnerable to damage. Fire is not great for a wooden plane, though the engine nacelle is mostly metal. Then again, most planes go down once they catch fire, metal ones too.

The mosquito is not “wooden frame covered by fabric” WWI style - far from it. This is what most people imagine and it’s very wrong. It is constructed as a thick shell of layers of wood with crossing fibers directions - somewhat like a modern composite carbon construction. The thick wooden shell itself is then covered by a fabric that is glued on top of it. So, the entire shell shares the load. The wings also have a main beam and struts inside the shell. Punching holes through the shell weakens the structure gradually and there are hardly any critically vulnerable points.

During development the initial wing design was even found to be stiffer than needed so DH reduced the number of struts inside it to save weight and clear more room.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Bozon

[KoN]

Is any one flying mossy lately . online servers and testing the engine damages .  . 

[cw4ogden]

8 hours ago, KoN said:

Is any one flying mossy lately . online servers and testing the engine damages .  . 

I've flown it online consistently for a week or so with no engine failures.  I have not deliberately tried to make it fail, but I've yet to experience an engine failure through mismanagement etc.  Seems to work fine if you obey the engine limits.

[KoN]

Ok took off to fly to target long flight and halfway there Left engine dies , Yet Right engine just keeps going .

Feathered prop on left engine . Didn't touch a thing . Yet left engine dies mid channel . So how can right engine just keep flying yet left engine dies . Temps all normal . its Very odd .

This is auto start . good take off . and normal flight . 2700rpm . Psi at 7-8 . All Temps well within tables . 

[Art-J]

Fuel tanks and valves mismanagement maybe on the left and right side? Mosquito does not have crossfeed system, so one has to monitor and manage them separately. Although if you say you didn't touch anything, both should probably be set the same way in autostart mission.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Art-J

[Nocke217]

Where does one find these debriefing logs and failure descriptions after a flight?

[peachmonkey]

6 hours ago, Nocke217 said:

Where does one find these debriefing logs and failure descriptions after a flight?

it's in c:\users\userusername\savedgames\DCS\  search for debrief there.. can't remember if it's in \DCS or in one of the subfolders

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by peachmonkey

[NineLine]

WIll need tracks if you feel you are seeing issues. Thanks. 

[One Eyed Ross]

On the other hand, I am getting to practice my dead stick landings a lot.

(I readily admit that I have less than 15 hours in the Mossie, so I am just a beginner.  But flying along and just having one engine quit on my [erroneous ignition timing] can be a bit frustrating, especially since I haven't done anything, just flying along at 2650 and 9.  Hopefully, it is just me being a NOOB and not an issue with the plane.)

[grafspee]

14 minutes ago, One Eyed Ross said:

On the other hand, I am getting to practice my dead stick landings a lot.

(I readily admit that I have less than 15 hours in the Mossie, so I am just a beginner.  But flying along and just having one engine quit on my [erroneous ignition timing] can be a bit frustrating, especially since I haven't done anything, just flying along at 2650 and 9.  Hopefully, it is just me being a NOOB and not an issue with the plane.)

I stumbled on  that "erroneous ignition timing " on this forum, and it was a bug , i can bring this famous Fw-190 Dora engine failure which took long time before it was fixed. Also this bug was killing Dora's engine after low power cruise.

Edited December 17, 2023 by grafspee

[stuart666]

You are all warming the engines up first, right? Ive had engine failures, but about 30 seconds after start. If I warm them up Ive yet to have a single engine failure that wasnt caused by enemy fire.

[One Eyed Ross]

On 12/23/2023 at 4:29 AM, stuart666 said:

You are all warming the engines up first, right? Ive had engine failures, but about 30 seconds after start. If I warm them up Ive yet to have a single engine failure that wasnt caused by enemy fire.

This was with a hot start, flying along.  So, technically, the engine wasn't warm, but game wise, it should have been considered warm.  It happens often enough that it is annoying, but not so bad that I want to stop flying the Mossy....  (Now, taxi-ing the damn thing is another issue we won't even talk about!  LOL!)

[stuart666]

Sounds like it might be an issue with the hot start then.

[NineLine]

Will need a track please.