ok, enough of that admiration, what about bad things, stupid AI?

[concrete]

I agree. It´s a pretty good sim! :thumbup:

 

but what about bad things?

 

what about ground war? :huh:

 

static armor staying in front of destroyed bridge and waiting to be shot? :huh:

i think this is big problem, like TURKEY SHOT... is it a 1%, 2%, 5%, 10% of realism!? :huh:

[159th_Viper]

I'm Happy as a Hog in Swill to be Fed Realism in small doses........Who knows - I might Gag having it shoved down all at once...........the Time will indeed arrive where we have an Armoured Brigade popping smoke and evading, with the attendant 'I cannot Kill anything' Bug-Related queries......until then - Good Times :D

 

 

Now that I have a machine that can finally do the SIM Justice - well, let's just say I have a deep sense of Respect for the work that has gone into this - I can only Hope that the Reward is Just :)

 

~S~

[EvilBivol-1]

It's just a limitation of what can be done at the same time in one product by one team. ED put in a lot of effort recoding the engagement and weapons modeling for ground AI, as well as moving their definitions into open LUA code. The opportunity to recode route/driving logic just wasn't there yet. However, they are now focusing on this and we will hopefully see the initial results soon, including vehicle scattering logic and use of smoke grenades.

[Jester_159th]

(*Pease bear in mind I'm talking from the position of someone who has yet to have chance to play around with Black Shark*) Surely if the ME now contains trigger logic it should be possible (maybe not in Black Shark, but not far into the future) to set up the AI along the lines that if an object such as a bridge is destroyed then the mission builder can add an alternative route that the AI will then follow?

 

A good example of how powerful a trigger driven AI logic can be, take a look at Steel Beasts ProPE if you get a chance. In that sim with careful use of waypoints, action zones and triggers it's possible to create some very realistic AI ground unit movement (including mobile reserves moving up to support a threatened sector or an offensive advance changing it's route to avoid an unexpected obsticle) with only minimal impact on processing useage.

[GGTharos]

That is the idea; while not everything is available yet, whether because the AI isn't capable of handling it or the ME doesn't give you the right tools for it; DCS:BS is only the first installment in what will be a living project.

 

With each module things will be improved - the modules aren't just aircraft. Wags already said that, for example, ground AI scatter/smoke will be worked on for DCS:Hog, so that the AI will behave a bit more realistically when attacked.

 

Additional triggers and 'things the AI can do' will also be added.

[Vati]

(*Pease bear in mind I'm talking from the position of someone who has yet to have chance to play around with Black Shark*) Surely if the ME now contains trigger logic it should be possible (maybe not in Black Shark, but not far into the future) to set up the AI along the lines that if an object such as a bridge is destroyed then the mission builder can add an alternative route that the AI will then follow?

Currently this is not possible (you can now basically only spawn by trigger), which is indeed a great disappointment, but hopefully it will be in the upcoming installments.

 

What I also dislike is inability to program ABRIS in mission editor. It is very annoying to launch mission just to draw a zone on the map. Luckily there is a workaround by editing mission files by hand, which is much faster. I really hope that future versions will enable to program such kind of instruments in mission editor (at least the basic functions like the one mentioned above).

[Jester_159th]

Thanks GG. Everything I'm hearing about Black Shark is getting better and better..... Looks like the future is very bright indeed

 

Can't wait to get my hands on it!!

[EvilBivol-1]

Luckily there is a workaround by editing mission files by hand, which is much faster.

...and this was done intentionally, so that users have the capability to develop their own GUI applications for such tasks. It doesn't mean ED will not also continue to expand the ME, because they will for sure, but there is now much greater flexibility and access.

[mckee14]

Currently this is not possible (you can now basically only spawn by trigger), which is indeed a great disappointment, but hopefully it will be in the upcoming installments.

 

What I also dislike is inability to program ABRIS in mission editor. It is very annoying to launch mission just to draw a zone on the map. Luckily there is a workaround by editing mission files by hand, which is much faster. I really hope that future versions will enable to program such kind of instruments in mission editor (at least the basic functions like the one mentioned above).

 

do you have some more infos about the ABRIS programming? i'm testing out the ME and doing some basic missions for some onlinemissions, and to programm the ABRIS for every single flight by hand inside the mission just doesn't seem to very productive...

[JimMack]

do you have some more infos about the ABRIS programming? i'm testing out the ME and doing some basic missions for some onlinemissions, and to programm the ABRIS for every single flight by hand inside the mission just doesn't seem to very productive...

 

RTFM. You should have downloaded the English version by now. In the real world, mission planning takes about 2 hours on a PC at your base. You then create a disc/cartridge and load it into your aircraft. The interesting thing about the Ka-50 ABRIS is that you can do mission planning in the aircraft. The reason being that you may have to land away from base, and create a new mission plan, or even do it in the air.

[patricio_z]

It's just a limitation of what can be done at the same time in one product by one team. ED put in a lot of effort recoding the engagement and weapons modeling for ground AI, as well as moving their definitions into open LUA code. The opportunity to recode route/driving logic just wasn't there yet. However, they are now focusing on this and we will hopefully see the initial results soon, including vehicle scattering logic and use of smoke grenades.

 

Now that would be great!,

 

It would be nice to have an option to use a trigger to set off smoke courtains in BS.... something like if X unit destroyed then activate unit "smoke generator"

[BearF]

What's good?

Quite a lot.

 

What's 'bad'?

The FARPs. The ability to provide a tactical FARP by placing the necessary vehicles without the 'heliport' structure would add to the immersion/playability.

 

The ability to draw map info from the ME for inclusion on the ABRIS map would help mission design & SA for MP flight members. Yes, I know I can sit there and draw these from the cockpit and thats good, but so far no-one has answered how to share this with human MP flight members. Just to clarify this, Im not referring to datalinking targets or ingress points, Im talking about drawing a box to mark an area and having that box available to all my squadron when we do that MP mission.

[GGTharos]

You can do so by saving your objects and then sending them to your squad mates. It can't be done in-game.

[BearF]

Thank you for the reply.

 

Could you eleborate as to which file/info would need to be sent. I've been delving into the BS folder structure but I cant ID the specific file to achieve this.

[GGTharos]

I only know it exists - I'll have a look at some point and let you know unless someone beats me to it :)

[Vati]

do you have some more infos about the ABRIS programming? i'm testing out the ME and doing some basic missions for some onlinemissions, and to programm the ABRIS for every single flight by hand inside the mission just doesn't seem to very productive...

I suggest you to check the mission files (.miz). They are in zip format so it is easy to extract and add own extra files to your missions. Examine one of the already created missions which have zone, etc. drawn in ABRIS and you will notice there is file "ADDITIONAL.lua" inside .miz folder ABRIS\database\

[mckee14]

I suggest you to check the mission files (.miz). They are in zip format so it is easy to extract and add own extra files to your missions. Examine one of the already created missions which have zone, etc. drawn in ABRIS and you will notice there is file "ADDITIONAL.lua" inside .miz folder ABRIS\database\

 

Thanx, that was the information i was looking for! so i can at least copy/paste from one bird to the others, maybe even add informations to the abris directly instead of in-game/in-pit. GREAT!

[Maverick-GER-]

Read the GUI manual page 56 for that...

PREPARE MISSION. The PREPARE MISSION mode is used for integrating navigation and environment data into the saved mission file.

[mckee14]

i know this. but, if you create a mission for 8 ppl for online flight, it's a really time-consuming and boring process to load up every single chopper and add all the points, lines etc. one by one.

 

so i was looking for a faster/easier method :)

[Renato71]

Back to the topic....

 

Smarter AI for vehicles is a must for this simulation. Otherwise it is irrelevant if you are shooting trucks, tanks, houses or trees. And, kinda goes along the philosophy - "If something aint realistic, it will not be in the DCS". With AI like this, no matter how hard you set up the missions, it will still look like "a practice for a real thing" - where opponents will have some brains.

 

It would be VERY authentic for Igla guys to jump into Land Rover and run away when they expend their loadout. Among being able to drive around in vehicle, and stop to dismount and discharge. The same AI as in LO is the most disappointing thing, and it clashes harshly and painfully with the level of detail invested into Ka-50. I rather have smart AI vehicles, then highly detailed 3D rivets, handholds, grills…

 

I had no time to examine damage models, so I would like to ask if anything is doing in regard to damage boxes, damage thresholds and progressive damages? For example, in the near future, will it be possible to destroy tires on wheeled AFV or trucks on tanks, make them immobile, but still able to fire back? I rather have this kind of authenticity as well, then highly detailed 3D rivets, handholds, grills…

 

Regarding damage thresholds, this is non-existent in LO and you are able to sink Kuznecov with Vikhors or cluster bombs. All that is needed is to "pump" enough led into it and the total is calculated.

 

One more thing that I had no time to test, but I'm very much interested into - true effects of warheads in respect to their purpose. Again, in LO, you can destroy bunkers and similar targets with any type of weapon. All you need is to deliver 250 or 500 kg of TOTAL WEIGHT. It does not matter if you drop FAB, PTAB, ODAB, KMGU or PLAB. And not only that each of these have different types of warheads (explosives), but they also have different amounts of explosives. FAB-500 has more TNT then runway busting bomb of the same caliber.

 

All above with best intentions. The fact that something looks nicely is not the sole reason why I like this series. Its because of what is UNDER the skin. For looks, I'll always choose BF.

[Boberro]

AI... hmmm

 

I would like to see when I am shooting to target, nearby enemy let's say tank moves even few meters from hit target... also I don't know how Igla\Stingers know to what target they're shooting. If plane flies at 4000 m alt, and Stinger\Igla is in centre of battlefield, it is possible to fire to friendlies aircrafts too ;]

[Renato71]

Yup, that too!

There should be more limitations to AI's "superman vision" :D

That reminded me of that silly bug in LO where Vulcan and Shilka have search radars. As for DCS, I think that cannons/guns on vehicles are still too precise. All of them have optical sights only, yet they are all able to shoot with same precision and leading. In FC, LAV-25 and Bradley were more deadly then Vulcan.

 

AI for the aircraft (helo, at least) is smarter then before. Taking out SAM/AAA according to their threat, but sometimes making too many runs, like they are making one run per one target. Also, AI choppers are droping flares when shot at by ATGM from vehicles - which means that AI chopper "cannot determine the type of missile". That is very neat :thumbup:

[nscode]

3D work was largly done by third party, so it is not a competition between AI and 3D detail :)

[Groove]

ED has a clear vision about Ground AI for next modules. Im optimistic that we will see significant improvement in the next modules.

[CAT_101st]

I am haveing so problems with the vichels gitting stuck on small inclines. So i am stuck having to move them to a place I did not want them to go. Or having to place waypoints going around theas bumps.