A-4E-C Nose Wheel Steering missing.

[Rudel_chw]

4 hours ago, mmcintosh said:

If you don't like my reply DON'T READ IT

How could I dislike your post without reading it first?  Why dont you just learn to use differential braking to steer, like the real pilot had to do? Wonder how do you fly other jets of the period, like the Mig-19 or Mig-21.  … and if you don’t like my reply, just take your own advice and don’t read it 

[JorgeB2]

The A4-E is a wonderful mod, no doubt. But it NWS doesn't works fine. I had 3 years on DCS, can use differential braking in all modules... except A4-E. Impossible to have natural turns. Pratice hours and hours and no good results.

Some people only demands an option for enable or disable the old NWS system. Nothing more. Will be free for everybody to use the fidelity or a little cheat in ground.

The true is that I rarely fly A4-E now for that issue. And before was one of the most used for me. It's a pity.

Anyway, thanks to the creators of the mod for their work.

 

 

[silverdevil]

the deck crews walked them around on the carrier with a tow bar. http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2015/07/a-4-nose-gear-steering.html

[ECV56CHUMBO]

But, with the default mod, without adding any countrie´s skin, you provide and Argentine Navy one, passing as a "A4Q" (how it was denominated here the naval A4B bought back in 1970).

those plane where retrofited with some upgrades, like the ones on the Argentinian Air Force B and C ones, and among thouse where the NWS as you can see in this picture:

This information can be checked in the following bibliography:

Cettolo, Marino, Mosquera & Núñez Padín: «McDonnell Douglas A-4P/C Skyhawk» (Serie Fuerza Aérea Argentina No.2, Argentina, 1997) ; Jorge F. Núñez Padín: “McDonnell Douglas A-4Q Skyhawk” (Serie Aeronaval No.1, Argentina, 1993); Kenneth Munson: «Skyhawk» (War Data #7, Israel, circa 1983).

I post this because it is a real thing that a lot of us seems to be using the mod, not just only as an E/F pure US standarized. Lacking to have older/retrofited/abroad sub variants make people to use the mod "passing as an specific Skyhawk" given the aircraft long and prosperous carreer. 

Just a thaught. 



 

0D0046_edited.webp

[Baco]

On 6/20/2022 at 3:22 AM, Rudel_chw said:

How could I dislike your post without reading it first?  Why dont you just learn to use differential braking to steer, like the real pilot had to do? Wonder how do you fly other jets of the period, like the Mig-19 or Mig-21.  … and if you don’t like my reply, just take your own advice and don’t read it 

not the same at all my friend. the planes you mention don´t lock the front wheel on a whim, and if no input is given the free casting wheel returns to center very quick. Not the case with the A-4E-C, that is very difficult to guide, and work with.

It bafles me that with so much negative feedback the makers of the MOD are not willing to give an option to use or not NWS.

 

[Rudel_chw]

3 minutes ago, Baco said:

not the same at all my friend. the planes you mention don´t lock the front wheel on a whim, and if no input is given the free casting wheel returns to center very quick. Not the case with the A-4E-C, that is very difficult to guide, and work with.

I can use it with no problem, but perhaps the keyboard users are the ones facing a more difficult case.

[Baco]

1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

I can use it with no problem, but perhaps the keyboard users are the ones facing a more difficult case.

I have pedals and I fly sim since 1984.... yes it is "usable" but its a bigger difficulty than it needs to be. You use it alone, put 10 planes on deck and you will see the problem. I hinders Realistic operations of the plane on realistic conditions. The Q had NWS, for instance...and many were retro fitted. you can call us "useless", to those who complain, but it doesn't change the fact that is an unnecessary hassle and a royal pain in the but. 

[Dallenbach]

Because of this change i have deleted the actually excellent mod.
This fiddly bull<profanity> on deck is really a pain in the ass.
My remaining life time is too short and important for me to continue struggling with it. I feel for Baco.

[randomTOTEN]

2 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

but perhaps the keyboard users are the ones facing a more difficult case.

I use a twist stick and the keyboard and can get around a packed carrier no problem. The free caster makes it turn arguably sharper than the Hornet in NWS HI.

[mmcintosh]

On 6/26/2022 at 8:59 AM, Dallenbach said:

Because of this change i have deleted the actually excellent mod.
This fiddly bull<profanity> on deck is really a pain in the ass.
My remaining life time is too short and important for me to continue struggling with it. I feel for Baco.

I too have deleted the MOD. I use Logitech rudder pedals, not the best out there but usually quite usable. In the A-4E they are [expletive] useless.

[Rudel_chw]

2 minutes ago, nukeproof said:

I am still grateful for the good times spent flying it and would like to thank the modder for the putting it up. At the same time, I can't avoid thinking that removing the NWS for the sake of a blind pursuit of ultra realism and not providing an option, was a very stupid decision.

 

Amazing how you can both be grateful yet say that the developers make stupid decisions ..    

I can only imagine how you would behave on real life, telling your CO that the aircraft has stupid features and that you'd rather resign from the navy than learn to use the aircraft like every one else does.

[Otto pallen]

15 minuti fa, nukeproof ha scritto:

I too uninstalled this mod because of it. For me, it became an exercise in frustation while jumping from carrier.

I am still grateful for the good times spent flying it and would like to thank the modder for the putting it up. At the same time, I can't avoid thinking that removing the NWS for the sake of a blind pursuit of ultra realism and not providing an option, was a very stupid decision.

Instead with all the difficulties of "problematic" use of nose wheel steering me and my group of "Flying Friends" in DCS continue to use this magnificent mod with satisfaction

[Ithronwise]

19 hours ago, mmcintosh said:

I too have deleted the MOD. I use Logitech rudder pedals, not the best out there but usually quite usable. In the A-4E they are [expletive] useless.

I also have Logitech rudder pedals, but I have no trouble steering the A-4 precisely. I control the little bird by short, alternating kicks to the left and right toe brakes. If you try to stand on the left or right toe brake to force the plane in the direction you want to go, you will lose that battle.

[Draken35]

I have the cheapest thrustmaster pedals with no curves... I also have 0 issues taxing with the A-4 in a carrier or airfield... What I have issues with, is the entitlement of some people... 

This mod is free, done by people using their free time to pursue their own goals and they graciously share their work with us, even if they have no obligation to.  It is fine and understandable that somebody might not agree or like those goals but calling them "stupid" is crossing the line. 

This entitlement might end up killing the desire of sharing one's work. I'm personally in this situation, even  that what I've shared with this community is not remotely  close to what the A-4 team has shared.

I'm sure the dev team, any mod dev team, can take constructive feedback and apply it if it fits their goals. Let's respect those, be grateful and if we do not like a mod for whatever reason, just let's move on. 

We are here to have fun after all... In whatever way each one of us define "fun".

 

[MAXsenna]

Open the controls indicator. It will show you the castor angle of the front wheel. If too far, it will only brake the airplane. Practice on an airfield. 

[Andrew8604]

I love the A-4 Skyhawk, and while this Community version isn't perfect, it's pretty damned good.  I enjoy flying it every time! ...and it's probably the only A-4 Skyhawk we're going to get (I'd like an A-4B version, though).  I would agree with 4eyes that an option box somewhere would be nice so that we can choose between powered nosewheel steering or the free-castering configuration.  But I don't know how difficult it would be for the community to code that option.  There DOES seem to be a problem with steering at low speeds, like less than 1-2kts.  It seems like something to do with starting friction forces on the individual main tires.  But I'm not sure.  Differential braking seems non-existent below the 1-2 kts range.  That, combined with having no feel of how much braking force we're applying to the left and right wheels.  I'm not saying this is anyone's fault.  It seems like you can't hold one brake, let's say the right, apply throttle and pivot around that right tire.  But I would think there would be enough "feel" in the toe brakes to make very fine brake applications to turn and not go off the edge of the carrier deck.  And I have tried setting control response curves for the brakes.  Then again, I see videos of real aircraft handlers on the carriers with a tiller bar or steering bar connected to the A-4's nosewheel, apparently to steer it around the flight deck for the pilot and get it lined up exactly on the catapult.  Maybe the real aircraft really is difficult to steer precisely.  And if you were facing the edge of the flight deck, close to the edge with brakes applied, stopped, I'm pretty sure the deck crew would get about 6-8 guys to push the aircraft back from the edge.  Or maybe shut it down and pull it with a tug by the arresting hook or main struts.  Can't do that in DCS...at least not yet.  Also, having powered nosewheel steering would sort of simulate that guy with the tiller bar steering the nosewheel around on the flight deck.  On an airbase, the nosewheel steering isn't really needed, sure.  You get used to using finesse on the toe brakes and throttle to taxi.

Anyway, the handling just feels very vague at walking speeds.  It seems to work okay if you stay up above about 2-3 kts.  And then having no feel at all on the toe brakes (that's the fault of the simulator rudder pedal hardware designs--they need much stiffer springs with a short throw) makes it a little hard to apply fine differential braking.

I won't quit flying the A-4, though.  I love doing carrier ops with it.  Just wish we had an angled-deck, Essex-class like the Hancock or Oriskany to operate off of, though.  The Clemenceau is about the best substitute.

Seems like the best work around is to keep some speed while taxiing...just above walking speed.  Don't get too slow with the nose wheel hard over, or you'll be stuck in a turn until you have enough speed (and ramp space) to ease out of it with the opposite brake and straighten that nose wheel.  I found this technique to work pretty well:  Hold the brakes.  Apply power up to about 1.4:1 EPR (or whatever %RPM that works out to).  Then ease off the brakes to gain speed to ONLY about 2-3 kts...walking speed.  Then, riding the brakes, maintain that speed and control direction with differential application of the brakes.  (I use the Thrustmaster TPR pedals).  To taxi a bit on an airfield, you can ease off the throttle a bunch and just maintain 7-10 kts or whatever, as normal.  For fine steering on the carrier deck, use the power-on, ride-the-brakes technique above.  Never mind that that power setting might blow guys off the carrier deck.    It's like the caster of the nose wheel is overly dampened, maybe.

[silverdevil]

3 hours ago, 4eyes said:

I would like to add that I am physically unable to use rudder peddles/toe brakes.  Maybe the mod isn't really design for a joy stick twist rudder?  Anyway, I have watched a number of old films of the  Forrestal. The pilots received a lot of help from the deck crew when moving the aircraft. You don't see any A4-E or F-4's moving around the decks without some kind of assitance.  My cousin was also on the  Forrestal during the fire. When using only a Joy Stick how should I bind the right/left brakes?  I tried using the stick and keyboard, but I am having trouble driving the aircraft, rubbing my belly, and picking my nose at the same time. I'm not good at physically multitasking anymore. Don't get old!

i had a t16000 stick. it twist worked with a-4 NWS just fine. brakes were on hotas. i have just recently starting using pedals.

[silverdevil]

22 minutes ago, 4eyes said:

Which buttons are you using for the brakes?

this is what i used.

null

null

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by silverdevil

[silverdevil]

5 minutes ago, 4eyes said:

I am using a VKB Gladiator. Trying to figure out the best right/left brake setup.  Also, I fly the P-51. I have no trouble taxi on a grass airfield field. But, as soon as I get on a large paved regular field, I'm all over place and eventually out of control.  Again, I only take off on the runway with the P-51. I have no trouble taking off or landing with either aircraft. Just taxi. 

unfortunately the problem with using buttons for brakes is the instant all on or all off. brakes are meant to be axes. think of driving a car and every time you press brake your tires lock up. 

[silverdevil]

8 hours ago, Andrew8604 said:

Just wish we had an angled-deck, Essex-class like the Hancock or Oriskany to operate off of, though.  The Clemenceau is about the best substitute.

hi. what about the forrestal? though officially it was the first "supercarrier". historically speaking this was in vietnam but the fire incident cut her duty short.

[silverdevil]

12 hours ago, 4eyes said:

You can understand where I am coming form.  I can't use rudder peddles. So that leaves my VKB Stick.  Nothing I have tried feels comfortable. I need to hang onto the stick, have access to left/right brake, the standard brake (W), and throttle all at the same time in order to taxi. 

I understand. I went without pedals until recently. So it is possible in DCS by using just your hands. Honestly I always felt it easier to use a twist.

[Andrew8604]

18 hours ago, 4eyes said:

Using the twist, braking right/left, braking, and using the throttle all at the same time is very physically difficult for me.   That's why I would like to see a simple braking option for the Skyhawk Mod.  Looking back at all the A4-E Skyhawk threads, I see a awfull lot of people getting frustrated and dropping the aircraft.  Too bad, because I love to fly and use it. 

If you have a twin throttle, you could maybe use one for throttle and one for brakes, and if there was a checkbox on the A-4E-C to allow option of nose wheel steering, then you could use stick twist for rudder/nose wheel steering.  This would also work for the MiG-21, as the real thing only has a single brake lever on the stick, not toe-brakes on the rudder pedals.  It does not have nose wheel steering but by applying rudder in combination with brakes, it gives differential braking...or at least that's the way it behaves in M3's MiG-21bis.  I've sat in a real MiG-21U, I know it has no toe brakes and has a brake lever on the stick.  Or, if you have a CH Throttle Quadrant with 6 analog levers, you could set one for throttle and two next to it for left and right brakes.  Another option could be the Honeycomb Bravo Throttle Quadrant, which has 6 levers and 7 toggle switches and a landing gear lever and flaps switch.  VKB stick doesn't have twist, does it?  But the A-4E-C Community programmers can only do what they have time and knowledge to do.  It used to have nose wheel steering.  I hope they can add the coding for a checkbox option to have it either way.

[Andrew8604]

On 8/28/2022 at 2:28 PM, silverdevil said:

hi. what about the forrestal? though officially it was the first "supercarrier". historically speaking this was in vietnam but the fire incident cut her duty short.

I do use the Forrestal.  It's great!  But it has so much acreage!  My A-4E gets lost. LOL Hopefully, Supercarrier's features can be added to the Forrestal (or vise versa) and a few other carriers...like the LSO crew and Catapult crew.  I'd like to see many more features for Supercarrier...or a new module I would call Carrier Battle Group.  But I'm thinking of posting that in the DCS Supercarrier Wishlist.  Like, after landing, where's the guy that runs out (sometimes with a bar) to ensure the arrestor cable gets free of the hook, and the one that directs you off the landing area and into the parking area (or to the next director/handler)?

In the same way as it's amazing how many features are packed into the little A-4, it's cool how so many jets (even the big A-3B Skywarrior) could operate off that little Essex-class ship.  They go together:  A-4 with F-8, A-3, A-1, E-1 and H-2...and later the A-7.

[XpRiV]

For those wanting NWS, why don't you just download "Community A-4E-C v2.0.0-beta-5.1"? It was the last one with NSW steering and is still available.

https://github.com/heclak/community-a4e-c/releases

Sure its not the most up to date version, but at least it has NSW . I use it on my stable release and the up to date one on Open Beta.

 

[MAXsenna]

The reason NWS was removed might be related to the FM. I don't know.

In any case. The TM TWCS throttle is a perfect fit for Skyhawk with its paddle you can use as rudder, (way better than twist), brakes or both with modifiers. 

Another cheap easy solution could be an Xbox controller for ground/deck ops. Just put it away while in the air. Get it second hand. Get another cheap joystick. 

On second thought while I was writing this. If you do already have a joystick with twist you use for rudders. Use it as toebrakes with a modifier.