DSC is known for its accuracy to RL (real life)… Why the discrepancy in plane variants?

[flygav]

In WW2 history it is well known all the plane variants were incremental... that's RL. One side would have the advantage in performance for just a short time until improvements were made. In the end it was well known all the planes were petty much equal in performance. 

Who's idea was it to develop the latest variant of the Bf109K4... and only come up with the Spit 9? Why not the Spit 14? Or all things being equal... the F4U4, Yak 9, KI84 etc.?  

If that goofy Hitler had the K4 right out of the gate... we would all be Nazi's right now.

It seems DCS has fallen short when it comes RL in the variants... Hopefully there are plans for future development to correct this.
(not to mention it gets frustrating fighting a 1944 K4 with a 1942 Spit in multiplayer).

Maybe someday...     

[Doughguy]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb flygav:

One side would have the advantage in performance for just a short time until improvements were made. In the end it was well known all the planes were petty much equal in performance. 

Sorry thats just an obvious contradiction... you make a correct statement and then negate it in the next sentence.

Zitat

If that goofy Hitler had the K4 right out of the gate... we would all be Nazi's right now.

But he didnt. And then there was the P51H and other variants and Planes like F8 in the pipeline.

 

ED can do what they want. Thats how it is.

The Spit can be paired with the A8. Dora, K4, Mustang and 47 are rather late war models, whereas there were enough antons flying as cannonfodder iirc.

It is not off.

[zcrazyx]

To my knowledge the K4 was originally being developed by a third party dev, something then happened to the dev and ED took over the project. as for the spitfire I believe with the recent additions that they are going for a 1943 scenario at the moment. we have the mk9 spitfire, mosquito and fw190 A8.

Though I would pay a lot of money for a Tempest, Typhoon or MK14 spifire.

 

Now as for adding in aircraft like the 109 G6, I dont doubt that It wouldn't sell, though I think mission devs would be caught between a rock and a hard place. Add all aircraft and let everyone go at it, or make it historic.  If there is a later varient I think people usually would go for it. rather then handicapping themselves. though that being said when i was on SOW, there was about the same amount of Doras to Antons with the K4 being prevalent. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by zcrazyx

[jeventy26]

ED has stated they wished they did older variants first... so there is some hindsight regarding variants.

[Nealius]

I was always wondering about the K-4. There's zero airworthy examples of surviving K-4s, but plenty of Gustavs and, I presume, plenty of documentation on those....so why the Kurfurst? 

[Mr_sukebe]

8 minutes ago, Nealius said:

I was always wondering about the K-4. There's zero airworthy examples of surviving K-4s, but plenty of Gustavs and, I presume, plenty of documentation on those....so why the Kurfurst? 

As I understand it, it was a kickstarter and voted for.  Clearly those voting were in the Luftwaffe camp wanted "give me the fastest thing possible..." with little thought of the implications. 

[Nealius]

Ah yes, classic min/maxers ruining everything for the lot of us  

[Doughguy]

you cant please everyone.

if you get a gustav others would moan about xyz....

irs been discussed to death really.. and im not on here for too long... the k4 is a late war powerhorse... but it does have its quirks and thus not unbeatable...

in 90% of the time its how you fly against it.

to come full circle, op said developement happens in increments. that is correct. and  most planes of each timeframe (ww2 timeframes bein rather narrow) have similiar  performance but usually exceed at only one.

its same today... you cant have an allrounder. people simply dont get it.

its the same with the mustang.. boohoo it cant fight the k9 boohhoo. yes you can youre just doing it wrong. 

same with the spit.  use its advantages to press the k4 into your fighting corner and not vice versa. it wont be an easy fight yes but thats how you get better anyway.

 

[Mogster]

17 hours ago, jeventy26 said:

ED has stated they wished they did older variants first... so there is some hindsight regarding variants.

The air Quake crowd will always demand the best and shiniest late war super props and they are always in fine voice… 

FWIW as I understand it in 1945 there were around 1000 Spit IXs active with RAF squadrons and around 150 Spit XIVs. Tempest and Typhoon were similar ratios, 1000 Typhoons, 150 Or so Tempests. 
 

I realise the Spit IX we have may not be exactly a 1945 variant.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Mogster

[grafspee]

DCS spit looks like entered production as MK V and ended up as MK IX tail section is exactly like in mk V

[some1]

It's DCS in a nutshell. The only consistent set of player aircraft, AI and assets, that forms a complete package is the LOMAC period of late 90s. 

Everything else is random selection of airplanes that rarely match each other, as they are developed over a long period of time with no single theatre in mind.

[DB 605]

16 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

As I understand it, it was a kickstarter and voted for.  Clearly those voting were in the Luftwaffe camp wanted "give me the fastest thing possible..." with little thought of the implications. 

Where, and when this voting happened? Asking because i was one of the backers in kickstarter campaign and i don't remember any votings there. Just list of planes that Luthier had chosen. Also remember there was already P-51D and D9 done by Ed, so K4 was not so weird choice in that company. They just should have chosen different operation of war/ later map, like bodenplatte but they probably thought it would not sell as well...

[Mogster]

I still see the Battle of Britain as being the best hope for maps and aircraft from the same period and theatre.

Flyables, Spit Mk I, Hurri, 109E, only the Hurri is new, the others are variants.

AI, Ju88 which we have a variant of, He111, Ju87. 

We have the map/s but they require work. There’s the added bonus that the 109E, Ju88, Ju87 would also provide much needed opponents for the I-16, although an Eastern Front map would really be sensible.

[DB 605]

Besides, this topic is covered so many times already, would be better to move on and see what ww2 planes we will have in future. I'm sure there is lots of different variants coming in "near" future.

[zcrazyx]

Honestly I wish that most planes were in mp servers. I miss the mosquito and its a shame its not on storm of war after so many months

[71st_AH Rob]

As much as I look forward to flying the Mosquito on SoW, the server is not ready for it and frankly without delayed fuses, with the white smoke trail from the port engine giving away your position and other way issues I think it would be a frustrating experience.

[Gunfreak]

I think we have to look to third parties to get 109G or E.

I also wish they made an effort to add some ww2 AI, if we can't get full aircraft at least make AI Gs or something. Don't know how they'll make the AI G behave like a G and not a K4,  given the AI  spitfire behaves like 109K4.

I guess you have to really limit the engine to force the AI to fly realistically. 

[Seaside]

On 12/28/2021 at 12:28 PM, Mogster said:

I still see the Battle of Britain as being the best hope for maps and aircraft from the same period and theatre.

Flyables, Spit Mk I, Hurri, 109E, only the Hurri is new, the others are variants.

AI, Ju88 which we have a variant of, He111, Ju87. 

We have the map/s but they require work. There’s the added bonus that the 109E, Ju88, Ju87 would also provide much needed opponents for the I-16, although an Eastern Front map would really be sensible.

Also would need a D-17

 

 

[Mogster]

7 hours ago, Seaside said:

Also would need a D-17

 

 

And the Bf 110.

I was trying to keep the list to a very bare minimum.

[Seaside]

3 hours ago, Mogster said:

And the Bf 110.

I was trying to keep the list to a very bare minimum.

And the Gladiator Lol !

I hear ya. They could do without the Gladiator actually

To be honest a 109E and a Mk 1 spit would get things started at the rate the modders are going,

We already have a Ju-87, JU-88, He-111 and even a Hurricane done , maybe not the exact versions but they would get us by for now.

 

[grafspee]

Just make it easier, we just need all of them

Question, which one first?

Edited December 31, 2021 by grafspee

[Mogster]

The Bf 109E would be good as an adversary for the I-16 also.

[Ercoupe]

Considering the fact that we have a late model Mustang, late model Focke Wulf, and late model '109, I'd say you should be complaining about the Spitfire Mk9. Not the 109K. The Mk14 Spitfire should have been thrown into the mix. But guess what..the Luftwaffe guys would have been the ones crying, instead. Like somebody said, you aren't going to make everybody happy.

But the Anton helped even things up, timeframe wise for the Spit. I love the Spit. I just simply don't fly it against the Kurfurst. If you want to, just knock their talent down a couple of notches, in the editor. Lower them down to trained (I think that's what it's called) or even rookies. And go kill'em. In the last year of the war, that's what most of them would have been anyway!

[flygav]

In a perfect world... hopefully it will be like the old sim FHWarbirds. The war starts with all the early planes and a time goes on the newer variants are available, all the way to the 262 and the Comet, F4U4 etc. 

Back in the day it would have 100+ players flying... was really fun. The server is still up but it fell out of favor (old timey graphics) but still great dogfighting. 

Hopefully different variants will someday be available (they already have the flight models it would only take some code changes?)  

[Ercoupe]

The thing is, that's not what DCS is about. It's about flying high fidelity military airplanes. It's about the aircraft, in here. Not about the battles they fought. It's not about the Battle of Britain, Guadalcanal, the Yalu River or Operation Rolling Thunder. They build incredible flight simulator combat airplanes. People like Reflected give us campaigns to use them in. But ED is concerned with the hardware of aerial combat.

I like the approach, frankly. I don't want to see them turn into a "Great Battles" type of flight simulator. Let the guys at IL-2 do that. You can't get the complexity in the models that we have here, when you do that. It takes years to build a DCS airplane. In the same time IL-2 turns out a huge map, battles, a campaign and a dozen or so airplanes. That's fine, but I don't want that.