not planned IZLID (IR Zoom Laser Illuminator-Designator)

[rcjonessnp175]

10 minutes ago, Rick50 said:

Ok, I can see the utility of using it to confirm and communicate... but...  why a second laser needed? Couldn't you use the TADS laser for this too?  Or is there some limitation that I'm not seeing?

Is it a different IR frequency?  Is the TADS laser not visible using NVG's or something?

No you cant use tads laser,  back then we owned the night and it was ir laser tag everywhere you looked.  IR pointer is that it points for folks to see via NVG's,  When we drove to objectives in Baghdad at night apaches escorted us and would IR point things to watch out for en route to our objective's  amongst many other situations.  Dcs has this thing where its like your one airframe against the world, sorry but real world its combined arms and we communicate crazy effective at night via radio and IR spectrum.  Tad's stuff the SME Apache folks will have the 100 percent correct answer but from me the tads laser is a designator so different freq for laser and cant see it with NVG...  So Down range Field craft with Izlid led to great things,  heck we even had AH6 and Oh58 Guys pointing with izlid and the like out there doors as well. 

 

[Rick50]

Ok I gotcha... I've used NVG's and the Kitesight way back in the mid 1990's with IR aiming for a rifle or MG, but I was Canadian Army and we didn't work with LGB's or Apaches in those days (well a couple  of JTF guys maybe, but not reg infantry). For us, lasers were mostly what tanks used for rangefinding!!

 

[rcjonessnp175]

On 4/11/2022 at 7:22 AM, S. Low said:

Saw how useful the A10 IZLID is in a recent multiplayer mission and apparently all apaches get this because it’s just mounted to the gun.

Correction, according to raptor it was not standard fleet wide in given timeframe. Still would like to have it though

 

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/291345-izlid-ir-zoom-laser-illuminator-designator-on-our-2005-2010-ah-64d-block-2-v91/?do=findComment&comment=4875304

4x harms on our viper was not fleet wide either but we got the option via editor,  Izlid was used on our Apache as I witnessed it down range in Iraq 2007.  Posted in other thread.  No excuse to not have this optional in my opinion.

[NeMoGas]

If this was on our version of the Apache it would be cool to have as an option in the mission editor.

+1

[Swift.]

5 hours ago, rcjonessnp175 said:

4x harms on our viper was not fleet wide either but we got the option via editor,  Izlid was used on our Apache as I witnessed it down range in Iraq 2007.  Posted in other thread.  No excuse to not have this optional in my opinion.

Very very valid point. Same for the ATFLIR on hornet, in 2005 there were only ~3 pods available for Legacy Hornets. 

It seems the precedence is for adding features even if IRL they were one offs. 

[S. Low]

Making it equipable via ground comms weapons menu would be preferable as well.

Or make the attachment set by default to on, requiring mission edit to turn it off.

Regardless, if it’s implemented most servers would just have it activated for every Apache slot.

[S. Low]

I also wish the Apache CPG had nvgs…. I think that’s coming though. I don’t understand why pilot got nvgs before CPG.

In a recent multiplayer mission put on by casmo’s patreon group I was CPG in one of the apaches trying to clear the perimeter of enemy compound for a friendly air assault. Compound was in a town so finding patrols required teamwork with A10s overhead. They were up at like angels 5 or 10, spotted patrols, pointed to it with izlid. It’s not visual on flir but it’s visible in NVG. So normally as CPG I would have goggles and spot it then move tads into location. As it played out my pilot had nvgs, saw the izlid laser, and I slaved to his LOS. In this manner we had the patrol targeted before the patrol even came into our field of view from the angle we were at. The point is how easy exchanging info is in this way. As opposed to the a10 relaying a grid to us and us setting a tp. By that time the patrol could be gone

Later we found a secondary target of enemy troops and vehicles that we had to store as TP and then relay coords to ground and up to A10s to target. If I had izlid a 5-7 minute exchange of info could have been near instant 

Edited April 14, 2022 by S. Low

[Swift.]

20 minutes ago, S. Low said:

Making it equipable via ground comms weapons menu would be preferable as well.

Or make the attachment set by default to on, requiring mission edit to turn it off.

Regardless, if it’s implemented most servers would just have it activated for every Apache slot.

It could probably just be an extra slot in the rearming menu?

[S. Low]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking but you said it better lol

[NeMoGas]

CPG does have NVGs, you have to join the slot and then leave the slot, and then join again. It's the same dance you have to do in the Hind to fix that desync.

[S. Low]

Yikes

[Yuto]

@BIGNEWY any plans for the team to review this again and maybe add for the future? Will help with better playability and working with aircraft and helos that have no way of spotting a laser using a Targeting system, would appreciate if we could somehow get this system on board our apache.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Yuto

[BIGNEWY]

12 minutes ago, Yuto said:

@BIGNEWY any plans for the team to review this again and maybe add for the future? Will help with better playability and working with aircraft and helos that have no way of spotting a laser using a Targeting system, would appreciate if we could somehow get this system on board our apache.

 

Hi, as mentioned before this is not planned for our AH-64D. 

Thanks

[Yuto]

@BIGNEWYIs there any given reason why it isn't planned? And why you aren't considering planning the option? I don't see the reason why it shouldn't. Would love an actual response instead of the same reason we get. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Yuto

[BIGNEWY]

10 minutes ago, Yuto said:

@BIGNEWYIs there any given reason why it isn't planned? And why you aren't considering planning the option? I don't see the reason why it shouldn't. Would love an actual response instead of the same reason we get. 

 

As mentioned by raptor these were not common on the AH-64D and not in the development plans for our AH-64D 

Like it or not that is the answer. 

[Yuto]

17 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

As mentioned by raptor these were not common on the AH-64D and not in the development plans for our AH-64D 

Like it or not that is the answer. 

Yet our F-16C gets the option for 4x HARMs which not all squadrons had and wasn't in common use and F/A-18C gets ATFLIR which was barely in use by the Legacy Hornet? And not to mention the ASPI and CMWS on our curennt AH-64D was not in common use yet we have it on our AH-64D. While it may not be in the development plans now, why not add it for the future? Using the simple excuse of it not being used isn't a good excuse in my opinion BN. Maybe you should reconsider with the team reviewing it, wouldn't be a bad idea to add it.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Yuto

[NeedzWD40]

Since IZLID isn't planned, it may be possible to add an IR laser capability via scripting. We can get the relative position of the gun, along with the animation states in elevation and azimuth, so in conjunction with createInfraRed you could actually get something close enough.

[Swift.]

Can we get one of those handheld IR pointers that pilots would use before IR pointers in TPODs were more common? It's probably more of a DCS wide wish, but actioning it similar to the flashlight would be ideal. ie press LAlt+M or something and it shines an IR beam wherever your mouse points.

[Yuto]

3 minutes ago, Swift. said:

Can we get one of those handheld IR pointers that pilots would use before IR pointers in TPODs were more common? It's probably more of a DCS wide wish, but actioning it similar to the flashlight would be ideal. ie press LAlt+M or something and it shines an IR beam wherever your mouse points.

That's basically the whole point of the IZLID but instead of it being on the TPOD or being handheld it's slapped onto the gun, you turn it on and you could either use the TADS or your IHADSS to point with it, it's basically a handheld laser but instead its slapped onto an apache

Edited September 13, 2022 by Yuto

[BIGNEWY]

15 minutes ago, Yuto said:

Yet our F-16C gets the option for 4x HARMs which not all squadrons had and wasn't in common use and F/A-18C gets ATFLIR which was barely in use by the Legacy Hornet? And not to mention the ASPI and CMWS on our curennt AH-64D was not in common use yet we have it on our AH-64D. While it may not be in the development plans now, why not add it for the future? Using the simple excuse of it not being used isn't a good excuse in my opinion BN. Maybe you should reconsider with the team reviewing it, wouldn't be a bad idea to add it.

 

I am not going to argue with you Yuto, you have had the answer, it is the only one I have for you. 

[Yuto]

3 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I am not going to argue with you Yuto, you have had the answer, it is the only one I have for you. 

Sir with all due respect I'm asking you if you could have the team review it again and reconsider planning it for the future, wouldn't be too much to ask the team to reconsider it, if it's the same answer then we could end this forum but you gave me the same answer from 6 or 5 months ago without asking the team again. 

[BIGNEWY]

2 minutes ago, Yuto said:

Sir with all due respect I'm asking you if you could have the team review it again and reconsider planning it for the future, wouldn't be too much to ask the team to reconsider it, if it's the same answer then we could end this forum but you gave me the same answer from 6 or 5 months ago without asking the team again. 

It is in the wish list, if anything changes we will let you know. But at this time it is not planned. 

[NineLine]

After consideration from the team, they have informed me that this will not happen at this time or the foreseeable future. That said if anyone has any reference docs or information on the system that can be shared, feel free to send it to me or BIGNEWY. Thanks for the request, and sorry its not planned currently.

[Yuto]

Its been a year since the last time anyone has asked for the IZLID. Any news on this topic? the OH-58D from PC has recently been confirmed to get the IZLID on their module and even showcased in a video. So I was wondering if now would be the time to add the item to the list of things to do for the AH-64D. Again as has been said already public info of the IZLID being on the AH-64D During 2007 is available on the TC-1-251 dating 2007. Would love to at least have it a low priority task and have it get added at the end if we can make that happen. 

Regards,
Yuto

[Hatman335]

Hell yeah bro, never stop fighting the good fight. I hope ED change their mind on this one.