Announcing the F-4 Phantom for DCS World!

[AndytotheD]

1 hour ago, WinterH said:

I've followed Viggen in anticipation for quite some time though, people just doesn't seem to remember it, and have that myth of it appearing out of thin air.

I mean so did I, we knew it was coming for quite some time, but Heatblur were definitely hesitant to show it off in a big way prior to the add campaign. For example how it happened to appear as a distant speck in an early F-14 carrier landing vid. That’s not to say it appeared completely randomly, but more so to say it would be consistent with Heatblur’s past marketing for for the F-4 to be closer than we might expect because they made big show of the Viggen when it was finally ready. 
 

by that same virtue, they could very well be following their approach to the F-14 which was to be incredibly loud about it for the entirety of its development cycle. 

[Kalasnkova74]

1 minute ago, Czechnology said:

Only thing I can say on the release date is I'm hoping Q1, but mid Q2 would be alright. Passing Q2 I'll admittedly be kind of ticked. Had mixed messages of "Almost here guys, don't give up 2022 hopes :)" but now hearing their more recent reddit post of "we'll be nearing completion and showing details before the halfway point of the year :)" gives me bad vibes. I fully understand that they had some serious issues come up given the war in Ukraine, but this is a noticeable twist in direction. 

Now I will say, the most recent post wasn't from Cobra or Mike, so might not be the actual team's policy/opinion, for all I know that guy is in very, very hot water for the way he worded that message, or they were just being extremely casual in their presentation. Was reddit after all. 

Correct me if I missed something but as of summer 2022 Heatblur made it clear that while December ‘22 was their goal, it was by no means set in stone they would meet that date.
 

I’d understand the angst if they stated December ‘22 was a definite launch date, but far as I know HB didn’t commit to that. 

[Horns]

15 minutes ago, Czechnology said:

Only thing I can say on the release date is I'm hoping Q1, but mid Q2 would be alright. Passing Q2 I'll admittedly be kind of ticked. Had mixed messages of "Almost here guys, don't give up 2022 hopes :)" but now hearing their more recent reddit post of "we'll be nearing completion and showing details before the halfway point of the year :)" gives me bad vibes. I fully understand that they had some serious issues come up given the war in Ukraine, but this is a noticeable twist in direction. 

Now I will say, the most recent post wasn't from Cobra or Mike, so might not be the actual team's policy/opinion, for all I know that guy is in very, very hot water for the way he worded that message, or they were just being extremely casual in their presentation. Was reddit after all. 

Sorry, the quote from 6r0v3r on the previous page didn't say anything about when they'll be nearing completion, just that they'll show and discuss things starting in less than six months. That will be the start of the hype that comes before preorders open, no way we get the module before Q3. Is there a second post from a HB person floating around?

Further edit: I repeat what Czechnology said about making the assumption the guy making the comment in question is authorized to speak on behalf of the Heatblur team. This may not be intended to be an official statement.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Horns
Clarification

[AndytotheD]

1 hour ago, Horns said:

Sorry, the quote from 6r0v3r on the previous page didn't say anything about when they'll be nearing completion, just that they'll show and discuss things starting in less than six months. That will be the start of the hype that comes before preorders open, no way we get the module before Q3. Is there a second post from a HB person floating around?

Further edit: I repeat what Czechnology said about making the assumption the guy making the comment in question is authorized to speak on behalf of the Heatblur team. This may not be intended to be an official statement.

 

Less than 6 months is anywhere between now and June. It’s too vague to make a definitive statement about Q3, unless you just assume it will be dead on 6 months. 

[Horns]

14 minutes ago, AndytotheD said:

Less than 6 months is anywhere between now and June. It’s too vague to make a definitive statement about Q3, unless you just assume it will be dead on 6 months. 

I see what you’re saying, but if it might be 3 months I don’t think he would have said 6. But forget that, let’s say the hype train does get started in March. Maybe presale opens around Easter. Presale won’t be less than three months (likely to be a season again, and it won’t be announced and end in the same season). Even that extremely optimistic scenario puts EA starting in July.

More likely: start seeing videos in May, presale announced July for a winter release.

Again, I’d love to see it quicker too, if I’m wrong I’ll be eating crow with a smile on my face, but expecting it before the middle of the year requires ignoring relevant history.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Horns
Softened word choice

[Czechnology]

Expanding on my previous post since I've been thinking about it more, think I personally would be able to shrug it off if we just got some solid word on the production other than "it's coming along." I don't need to hear "Oh we're working on these systems, this systems done, we want these systems done before we launch it" or "Heres how many rivets we've included". I don't even want a screen shot. Just give us a new release projection, even if it's rough. 

Also, @Horns, my only thing on all that is that pre-order periods can range wildly. I've witnessed several month long pre-orders to literally none ever since I joined the community. I can't speak for how Heatblur have done it in the past though, their other modules are before my time on DCS, as I've said before, my experience with heatblur was hearing waaaaaaay back in the day "These guys are making a multi-crew F-14", saying "Cool", then a few years later it was out and I bought it. I wasn't biting my nails watching every piece of development like I am with the F-4. I hadn't played or kept any kind of tabs on DCS other than a few failed attempts to learn the base Su-25 before the F-14 released.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Czechnology

[MAXsenna]

There were preorders for Syria, but not the South Atlantic, Mirage F1 or the MB-339.
Just sayin'.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[SgtPappy]

1 hour ago, Czechnology said:

...my experience with heatblur was hearing waaaaaaay back in the day "These guys are making a multi-crew F-14", saying "Cool", then a few years later it was out and I bought it. I wasn't biting my nails watching every piece of development like I am with the F-4. I hadn't played or kept any kind of tabs on DCS other than a few failed attempts to learn the base Su-25 before the F-14 released.

 

I was exactly the same way. I thought it was awesome but I didn't follow it, and now the F-14A is my favourite module. Now all I can think of is Phantom - day and night!

[RevampedGrunt]

Glad I am not the only one in such anticipation over this. I remember getting into DCS back in 21 and being a bit disappointed over the lack of F-4, and more so that the original module had its development suspended. Now with knowing the capabilities HB has, quality won't be an issue but future delays definitely worry me, though that's more of a problem pretty much anything in DCS has. 

[Biggus]

7 hours ago, dcsil2pilot said:

imo they're already there. I 100% understand the delay behind the module, but to KNOW you're still 6 months out in 2023, and still be radio silent and not talking or telling people that it's being delayed, and even going as far as keeping the hype for a 2022 release up in November, while ALSO not having a statement put out about it after you miss the date completely...just leaves a bad taste.

I'm not frustrated about the delay. I'm frustrated they knew it was going to be delayed and STILL have not said anything about it. Just tell us!

While I don't think it's going to be six months before initial release, I share your disappointment.  With very positive looking statements from the team regarding a 2022 release as late as mid November, I really think they've forgotten some of the expectation management that they did so well with some of the larger Tomcat patches.  Either that or it is literally in the next patch and the radio silence is purely down to not knowing when ED are going to deploy it.  Which is pretty unlikely in my opinion.

[Rick50]

 

Ha ha!

 

I know EXACTLY when the F-4E will go on sale in the ED store!!! 

Take a look if you dare:

Spoiler

When it's bug-free and ready for a great experience!

What?

What did you  think I was gonna say, that "it'll be ready June 5th at 19:00 GMT"  or something? LOL!!       

 

[AndytotheD]

1 hour ago, Biggus said:

While I don't think it's going to be six months before initial release, I share your disappointment.  With very positive looking statements from the team regarding a 2022 release as late as mid November, I really think they've forgotten some of the expectation management that they did so well with some of the larger Tomcat patches.  Either that or it is literally in the next patch and the radio silence is purely down to not knowing when ED are going to deploy it.  Which is pretty unlikely in my opinion.

Now I don’t believe it’s as soon as the next month, or even two months out. But three to four months prior to marketing start, followed by another month of hype prior to release would vaguely follow the Viggen style marketing campaign. 6 months to release would be reasonable if they performed a longer marketing campaign like they did for the F-14. 
 

I’m beating a dead horse here, but there’s a couple of reasons I’m especially hesitant to accept the pessimistic/realistic delay expectations that project out into Q4: During its development, the F-14 was delayed so many times that, IIRC, Heatblur claimed they would avoid attaching dates to their modules, which they then subsequently did anyway for the F-4, when it was announced last January. Even as late as two months ago they were confident they’d have it out before the end of 2022, in spite of all the tragedy occurring in the world. They must have been pretty confident in their progress to make a statement like that with only two months left in the year. Something utterly disastrous would probably have needed to happen to tack on >8 months* to the development from that October statement, which is why I don’t really buy that it would end up being a Q3/Q4 release. 

Having said that, I will almost certainly be proven wrong  
 

*I’m going to note the length of time for the ED test period, but it’s hard to believe HB made timeline statements without taking that into account

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by AndytotheD

[Horns]

3 hours ago, Czechnology said:

Expanding on my previous post since I've been thinking about it more, think I personally would be able to shrug it off if we just got some solid word on the production other than "it's coming along." I don't need to hear "Oh we're working on these systems, this systems done, we want these systems done before we launch it" or "Heres how many rivets we've included". I don't even want a screen shot. Just give us a new release projection, even if it's rough. 

Also, @Horns, my only thing on all that is that pre-order periods can range wildly. I've witnessed several month long pre-orders to literally none ever since I joined the community. I can't speak for how Heatblur have done it in the past though, their other modules are before my time on DCS, as I've said before, my experience with heatblur was hearing waaaaaaay back in the day "These guys are making a multi-crew F-14", saying "Cool", then a few years later it was out and I bought it. I wasn't biting my nails watching every piece of development like I am with the F-4. I hadn't played or kept any kind of tabs on DCS other than a few failed attempts to learn the base Su-25 before the F-14 released.

 

I do agree that an official word on the new expected timeframe would help. After letting the end of 2022 come and go without ever telling people they wouldn't make the timeframe, some unmistakably official word (as opposed to a FB comment by a team member who doesn't often speak on behalf of HB) is probably warranted, even if it is just to say they're not able to make another prediction - at least then, people could adjust expectations accordingly.

I figured that many people won't know or remember the history of HB's last release, the F-14, I hope I'm helping to better inform those who might wish to know what HB's track record is, but it's not an attempt to boss the discussion - just an explanation of how I arrive at my guesses.

Re preorders, they do vary a lot. Again, I'd be surprised if HB wound up doing things dramatically differently to last time, but that could happen, who knows

 

[Rick50]

 

Every time some dev team gives a hard date, or even a rough estimate, for a simulation's ETA... there's at LEAST 2 major delays. Even one delay  could take months, or even MIGHT add 2 YEARS. Or longer. This is not limited to DCS modules either, but flight combat simulations in general. 

Dev teams can only estimate that there will be delays at some point, but can't guess when or why they will occur or how long it'll set them back. 

 

They are the ones that get the grief for it, and have to suffer through solving the delay problem, whatever that may be... all we have to do is be patient, it will arrive when it's truly ready for us, and not a moment earlier. 

[Nahen]

Two days ago, the F-4 Phantom E probably went to the museum in Poland in Krakow. Is Heatblur preparing a promotional campaign? 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Nahen

[WildWeasel303]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:55 AM, Nahen said:

Two days ago, the F-4 Phantom E probably went to the museum in Poland in Krakow. Is Heatblur preparing a promotional campaign? 

 

Can confirm through some digging this definitely happened: May need google to translate
Could be unrelated, but the timing seems a little suspect for HB to be keeping this quiet...

[RevampedGrunt]

55 minutes ago, WildWeasel303 said:

Can confirm through some digging this definitely happened: May need google to translate
Could be unrelated, but the timing seems a little suspect for HB to be keeping this quiet...

I'm kind of in the dark here. What would it mean if an E goes to Poland? 

[Nahen]

3 hours ago, WildWeasel303 said:

Can confirm through some digging this definitely happened: May need google to translate
Could be unrelated, but the timing seems a little suspect for HB to be keeping this quiet...

https://milmag.pl/f-4e-phantom-nowy-eksponat-w-muzeum-lotnictwa-polskiego-w-krakowie/

[Bozon]

3 hours ago, RevampedGrunt said:

I'm kind of in the dark here. What would it mean if an E goes to Poland? 

That Soviet invasion is imminent! 

[Nahen]

4 hours ago, Bozon said:

That Soviet invasion is imminent! 

Chill out, we are resuming the production of PZL P.11c that will successfully oppose the Su-57 :D

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

12 hours ago, Bozon said:

That Soviet invasion is imminent! 

[WildWeasel303]

15 hours ago, RevampedGrunt said:

I'm kind of in the dark here. What would it mean if an E goes to Poland? 

Heatblur is primarily based in Poland. 

[scommander2]

Sorry, I am not sure that do we know what is the pre-order day for it yet?  Thanks.

[SgtPappy]

1 minute ago, scommander2 said:

Sorry, I am not sure that do we know what is the pre-order day for it yet?  Thanks.

There is none yet.

Trust me, if there was one, it would be broadcast to the heavens.

[Julian92]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb SgtPappy:

There is none yet.

Trust me, if there was one, it would be broadcast to the heavens.

Not sure about that since HB still hasn’t officially acknowledged that they missed the release on any of their Social Media Channels..