investigating George cannot hit moving targets with the hellfire.

[Rongor]

Here is another track, this time it's only 50 MB.

Like @Tank33 I am flying on Rotorheads. My average ping is 170 ms. Flew the Blackshark for more than 110 hours on this server, basically all my Vikhrs hit, never had a problem with lag.

In the trackfile I startup cold on a FARP, George AI is my CPG, then transit to the target area. You will see several missiles hit the dirt behind targets. They also fail to hit some static targets.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/gvvg5y5nayf2aty/Persistent_Syria_TPE_v4_RUN1-20220408-164408.trk/file

Edited April 8, 2022 by Rongor

[Hammer1-1]

The server trackfile would honestly be the best thing to upload as it usually never gets corrupted somewhere down the track.

[Mr_Blastman]

Just flew an online mission and it took 16 hellfires to kill two stationary ground targets.

 

A variety of issues:

1)  George was firing beyond max range in LOBL without complaining.  Away they went!  Into the wild blue yonder, that is...

2) George would fire LOAL LO but he'd never lase, so off they went like bottle rockets.

3)  I would do the same and try and get him to lase and he still wouldn't.

4)  I had him fire at least 8 shots within range and only two finally connected.

Frustrated, I moved in and began gunning stuff down with the cannon at point blank range.  George eventually took a few AAA hits to his cockpit and died.  I lost an engine and managed to RTB.  Considering things, I believe the problem was solved.  Now that George is dead the Army will surely have a replacement for him. 

 

[admiki]

6 hours ago, Mr_Blastman said:

Just flew an online mission and it took 16 hellfires to kill two stationary ground targets.

 

A variety of issues:

1)  George was firing beyond max range in LOBL without complaining.  Away they went!  Into the wild blue yonder, that is...

2) George would fire LOAL LO but he'd never lase, so off they went like bottle rockets.

3)  I would do the same and try and get him to lase and he still wouldn't.

4)  I had him fire at least 8 shots within range and only two finally connected.

Frustrated, I moved in and began gunning stuff down with the cannon at point blank range.  George eventually took a few AAA hits to his cockpit and died.  I lost an engine and managed to RTB.  Considering things, I believe the problem was solved.  Now that George is dead the Army will surely have a replacement for him. 

 

How are you doing LOAL shots?

[Rongor]

can we keep this thread tidy please?

last posts might be worth looked into by ED, yet this thread is addressing George missing moving targets, not George's general performance nor his LOAL functionality.

[Mr_Blastman]

4 hours ago, Rongor said:

can we keep this thread tidy please?

last posts might be worth looked into by ED, yet this thread is addressing George missing moving targets, not George's general performance nor his LOAL functionality.

I think the problems are related.  George is exhibiting all of the characteristics of Petrovich--inability to hold sight on targets, etc., except in his current implementation he more resembles an early version of Petrovich.  Perhaps some of this will be helped when they add in image tracking?

Yesterday he was shooting at a house about 100 yards in front of a SAM, though, so I have no idea what was going on there.

8 hours ago, admiki said:

How are you doing LOAL shots?

I selected LOAL HI in George's menu and told him to fire.  I also fired manually and then went back into his menu and change him over to hellfire while still holding target.

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Mr_Blastman

[admiki]

4 minutes ago, Mr_Blastman said:

 

I selected LOAL HI in George's menu and told him to fire.  I also fired manually and then went back into his menu and change him over to hellfire while still holding target.

 

 

Search my activity, I posted a way to do LOAL shots with George. Just telling him to switch to LOAL does not work atm

[Hammer1-1]

I can verify LOAL shots dont work with George...unless you have a buddy lase. Thats the ONLY way you can get a successful LOAL.

[NeMoGas]

It might be a global DCS issue with off board lasers and moving targets. After having a player flown A10 lase a moving target the Hellfires still miss. We also lased a moving target with the Apache and had the A10 shoot a laser mav at it and it also missed. It seems like other clients lasers only update at a much lower rate compared to your own which is why when you have the cross hairs over the target the missile lands beyond and also somewhat behind the moving vehicle. 

I assume this is an issue in the Apache because each cockpit is treated like a separate client? Not sure just a guess. 

This might also be why IAT was pushed back because ED realized this and has to fix that before they can give us IAT, also just a guess.

[Dangerzone]

1 hour ago, NeMoGas said:

It might be a global DCS issue with off board lasers and moving targets. After having a player flown A10 lase a moving target the Hellfires still miss. We also lased a moving target with the Apache and had the A10 shoot a laser mav at it and it also missed. It seems like other clients lasers only update at a much lower rate compared to your own which is why when you have the cross hairs over the target the missile lands beyond and also somewhat behind the moving vehicle. 

I assume this is an issue in the Apache because each cockpit is treated like a separate client? Not sure just a guess. 

This might also be why IAT was pushed back because ED realized this and has to fix that before they can give us IAT, also just a guess.

Re the missile landing 'beyond' - I think at the moment the laser doesn't 'hit' targets - it appears to go through them as though they're not actually there. The best way I've seen to track targets is to aim right at the base of the target and not the center of the side panel. This isn't as much of a problem with fast movers because of the higher angle, but is far more noticeable when it comes to the apache. (IDK if this is right or not, just what I've done to make a hit more likely)

Interesting point regarding other clients lazers and updates. Would be handy to know if this is correct or not. With the Apache, buddy lasing / ripple fire, and maybe soon the Kiowa to also complement the rest, I hope this is something that's actually being flagged or recognised as a potential issue. 

[Hammer1-1]

5 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

Re the missile landing 'beyond' - I think at the moment the laser doesn't 'hit' targets - it appears to go through them as though they're not actually there. The best way I've seen to track targets is to aim right at the base of the target and not the center of the side panel. This isn't as much of a problem with fast movers because of the higher angle, but is far more noticeable when it comes to the apache. (IDK if this is right or not, just what I've done to make a hit more likely)

Interesting point regarding other clients lazers and updates. Would be handy to know if this is correct or not. With the Apache, buddy lasing / ripple fire, and maybe soon the Kiowa to also complement the rest, I hope this is something that's actually being flagged or recognised as a potential issue. 

if thats the case, wouldnt it affect the Ka50? Never really miss with that vehicle...I will mention though that the AH64 doesnt have a way to latch the laser designator to the target like you can with everything else, you have to manually adjust it the whole way in.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[NeedzWD40]

6 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

f thats the case, wouldnt it affect the Ka50?

Not exactly, since the Vikhr is basically just following the sights, not the designation point.

Per the issue at hand, the problem I notice is that it seems the bounding box for the laser is pretty tiny, so you can have a pretty good track on a target but the actual area that the laser must hit is pretty narrow. Mostly noticeable with aerial targets.

Edited October 4, 2022 by NeedzWD40

[Dallas88B]

On 4/9/2022 at 9:33 AM, Mr_Blastman said:

I believe the problem was solved.  Now that George is dead the Army will surely have a replacement for him. 

That made me smile. Thanks.

[NeMoGas]

One way to possibly see if this is the issue is to have a friend in something like an A10 lase a moving target at night. Have that player set the TPOD to both so it shoots a designator and IR pointer. Then you can observe their laser under NVGs and see how well it tracks.

As far as does the lase pass through a unit, well when the unit is static it certainly does not. I have lased tanks and such silhouetted on a ridge aiming at the hull or turret area and still get valid laser ranges and impacts. 

You can also set the ACQ to seeker in the Apache and have a friend buddy lase a moving target and the cross indicating where the seeker is looking will also jump around as if the update rate of the laser is lower and not smoothly tracking.