Vaicom Radio for AH64

[Japo32]

It is not official. Of course a creator can say "I won't support it anymore" but the reality is the communication here in the forums has been degraded with the creator for a long time. Even before the last update.  @Hollywood_315 appeared very few times, and after the last one he did, a lot of people mentioned him asking for support, and no reply at least in public forums.

Something that is abandoned, can be taken again.... but it is clear to me that for some time already the product is abandoned, and supported only by people that have the program  that helps to sort problems. Especially @MAXsenna who helps a lot here.

There are lots of posts with problems and issues. In my case I have a big list of things that don't work and testings, and quite a few are verified by others that don't work. 

@BIGNEWY would it be nice that the DCS team could implement something like Viacom. At least something that would receive constant support. Or force Vaikom to have the source code as other modules ED has, so could continue the support for customers. I know ED don't receive any money about Vaicom, but there is a business there that support is not perfect right now. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Japo32

[fabio.dangelo]

Yes, but something must have happened if Hollywood_315 disappeared so almost suddenly.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, fabio.dangelo said:

Yes, but something must have happened if Hollywood_315 disappeared so almost suddenly.

Agreed and it is concerning, I hope he is well.

[fabio.dangelo]

Of course I hope so, too

[sthompson]

On 6/19/2022 at 11:05 AM, Japo32 said:

It is not official. Of course a creator can say "I won't support it anymore" but the reality is the communication here in the forums has been degraded with the creator for a long time. Even before the last update.  @Hollywood_315 appeared very few times, and after the last one he did, a lot of people mentioned him asking for support, and no reply at least in public forums.

Something that is abandoned, can be taken again.... but it is clear to me that for some time already the product is abandoned, and supported only by people that have the program  that helps to sort problems. Especially @MAXsenna who helps a lot here.

There are lots of posts with problems and issues. In my case I have a big list of things that don't work and testings, and quite a few are verified by others that don't work. 

@BIGNEWY would it be nice that the DCS team could implement something like Viacom. At least something that would receive constant support. Or force Vaikom to have the source code as other modules ED has, so could continue the support for customers. I know ED don't receive any money about Vaicom, but there is a business there that support is not perfect right now. 

 

The challenge for VAICOM since the beginning is that DCS has no stable, public API for communicating with the AI. The first version of VAICOM used simulated keystrokes via the menu system. But since the menus are dynamic this only worked if you installed lua mods that patched the menu system to create static menus, and those broke frequently when ED updated the DCS code. (I know because I tried to do the updating when versions 1.5 and 2 of DCS came out.) The current system bypasses menus by running lua code within DCS that interact with DCS AI directly. But there is no standardized way to do this, and so again I suspect that things are breaking frequently as DCS is updated. A further complication is that Razbam and ED are themselves introducing new AI interaction in the way of copilots / RIOs etc. (e.g. Jester, George, etc.) and none of those interfaces are documented publicly either.

Hollywood and VAICOM PRO have shown that voice interaction with the AI is possible. But keeping it working probably requires more support from ED than I suspect they have provided so far. A standardized API would be enormously helpful. So would integration between that API and the track system so that voice commands were reproducible in track files.

Caveat: These are my observations as a long term user and participant in these forums. Perhaps there have been behind-the-scenes interactions between Hollywood and ED that I'm not aware of.

 

[Japo32]

That is the reason I think that ED should the one that would make this feature for DCS officially. They are the best to control all of that and preserve it working in each update. But I suppose they won't do it because it depends on an external program to transfer voice into text, and they won't program that feature for a low number of users, but at least they could have the source code of Vaicom as they do for every module the third parties sell, to garantee the support.

[Tshark]

Looks like some changes made to the Apache this last patch have fixed the Vaicom issues.  I played MP as the CPG and conducted multiple JTAC nine line assignments.  Vaicom worked flawlessly and my kneeboard copied all the JTAC info for easy TG point creation. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Tshark

[Tshark]

Yesterdays patch brought back the bug.  Vaicom now only works when on the ground at a base or FARP.  Guess we have to wait a little longer.

 

 

[Eaglewings]

Yesterdays patch brought back the bug.  Vaicom now only works when on the ground at a base or FARP.  Guess we have to wait a little longer.
 
 

Have vaicom but have not been using for a good while.
Dcs radio menu does not work for me in the air for Apache. I can get the radio to work when on the ground.
Most likely a dcs bug

[streakeagle]

VAICOM would work better by returning to emulating key presses.

Ultimately, I was already considering using a VoiceAttack profile based purely on keypresses as I did before I had VoiceAttack or Vaicom.

But not using VAICOM would cost the loss of many great features that cannot be implemented using a basic voice to keypress profile.

The solution would be for ED to provide their own internal support for voice commands, similar to the way they are making an internal voice chat to compete with/replace SRS.

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, streakeagle said:

VAICOM would work better by returning to emulating key presses.

Pretty much why VAICOM was developed. And I'm happy about it.

Download Bailey's AH-64 and you're solved.

[streakeagle]

Not using key presses has a cost: broken track files. Track files log user inputs. VAICOM bypasses the inputs, so if you use voice to turn on ground power, the track does not record ground power being started and your aircraft never leaves its parking spot

Edited September 4, 2022 by streakeagle

[MAXsenna]

4 hours ago, streakeagle said:

Not using key presses has a cost: broken track files. Track files log user inputs. VAICOM bypasses the inputs, so if you use voice to turn on ground power, the track does not record ground power being started and your aircraft never leaves its parking spot

 

Yeah, I know that. Just like with DCS-Bios. DCS needs a new track system anyway. 

Makes showing off my newly acquired AAR skills a little tricky.

Aquir

Edited September 4, 2022 by MAXsenna

[fabio.dangelo]

Il 3/9/2022 at 14:34, Tshark ha scritto:

Yesterdays patch brought back the bug.  Vaicom now only works when on the ground at a base or FARP.  Guess we have to wait a little longer.

It is peculiar that this bug is back, in the last patch no update was released (at least officially in CL) for this module.

[Tshark]

ED always adds little tweaks with no mention.  Aside from Vaicom not working the SAS alarms are now less frequent.

 

[sirrah]

I am wondering, how can it be that the VAICOM still doesn't work properly with the Apache, whereas I read that VAICOM does work with the newer Mirage F1? (I don't own the latter myself though)

 

This is by no means a rant (it is what it is), but I'm just curious as to why this is. I'd expect that the radio behavior for each module would be the same. So how come VAICOM works for the F1, but not for the Apache?

[fabio.dangelo]

It would seem to be a problem with the module rather than with VAICOM, since with one update it works and with another it does not, while Vaicom is always the same.

So the problem seems to be with ED.

[sirrah]

2 minutes ago, fabio.dangelo said:

It would seem to be a problem with the module rather than with VAICOM, since with one update it works and with another it does not, while Vaicom is always the same.

So the problem seems to be with ED.

Ah ok, that makes sense

 

@BIGNEWY or @NineLine sorry to tag you guys (I know you're busy), but if the above is true, is this on ED's radar?

Summary:

VAICOM hasn't worked for the Apache since the module release. This hasn't been an issue for other new modules (such as the Mirage F1). Is it possible that something's wrong on the Apache side? Is the team investigating this, or could you please ask them to?

[stormrider2]

6 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Ah ok, that makes sense

 

@BIGNEWY or @NineLine sorry to tag you guys (I know you're busy), but if the above is true, is this on ED's radar?

Summary:

VAICOM hasn't worked for the Apache since the module release. This hasn't been an issue for other new modules (such as the Mirage F1). Is it possible that something's wrong on the Apache side? Is the team investigating this, or could you please ask them to?

I'm not sure that VAICOM's not working is ED's responsibility. It was never officially supported by ED in any way. It's a mod and therefore, the only one responsible for sustaining it is @Hollywood_315. The shame is that it was a paid mod.

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by stormrider2

[fabio.dangelo]

The real problem is that ED does not have standard APIs to handle AI radio communications.

Hollywood, has tried to come up with a solution that has worked so far, but the problem is that ED has no constraints and could easily change things either at the Core level or perhaps on the individual module without having to take into account what Hollywood has done.

As long as he was present he made fixes, now that he is (unfortunately) no longer present, any change that ED introduces can break Waicom.

 

[sirrah]

I understand all this (of course ED is not responsible for any 3rd party addon software)

 

It would however be courteous from ED towards the community and their 3rd party contributors (VAICOM in this case), if they could spend just a tiny bit of recourse to do a quick check on the Apache radio. Perhaps it's just a simple fix and if not, so be it.

 

ED did embrace VAICOM at some point in history and (rightfully) gave it its own sub-forum. There even is a VAICOM tab within the DCS options (I assume this has been made by ED?) showing some basic VAICOM information. Would be a waste to have it all fall apart like this, just because Hollywood_315 is off the grid.

 

As others mentioned: Foremost I hope that Hollywood_315 is ok, as his sudden absence is disturbing.

[stormrider2]

1 minute ago, sirrah said:

I understand all this (of course ED is not responsible for any 3rd party addon software)

 

It would however be courteous from ED towards the community and their 3rd party contributors (VAICOM in this case), if they could spend just a tiny bit of recourse to do a quick check on the Apache radio. Perhaps it's just a simple fix and if not, so be it.

 

ED did embrace VAICOM at some point in history and (rightfully) gave it its own sub-forum. There even is a VAICOM tab within the DCS options (I assume this has been made by ED?) showing some basic VAICOM information. Would be a waste to have it all fall apart like this, just because Hollywood_315 is off the grid.

 

As others mentioned: Foremost I hope that Hollywood_315 is ok, as his sudden absence is disturbing.

I partly agree. I would love, as much as you, to have VAICOM working again. But not half working as a temporary solution. In this case, I would prefer that ED uses its development time to create something official, be it an in-house solution or to officially support or license a VAICOM-like third party product.

A temp solution will eventually break again and again.

Perhaps the reason why Hollywood disappeared is because he's been hired or licensed by ED. We can always dream.

[sthompson]

5 hours ago, sirrah said:

ED did embrace VAICOM at some point in history and (rightfully) gave it its own sub-forum. There even is a VAICOM tab within the DCS options (I assume this has been made by ED?) showing some basic VAICOM information. Would be a waste to have it all fall apart like this, just because Hollywood_315 is off the grid.

 

I believe that the tab was created by Hollywood, not ED. My understanding is that any mod can introduce it's own tab and options in the Misc page. SRS, Tacview, and various community modules being other leading examples.

[fabio.dangelo]

6 ore fa, stormrider2 ha scritto:

Perhaps the reason why Hollywood disappeared is because he's been hired or licensed by ED. We can always dream.

We all hope so

Personally, in the Wishlist section I put my hope...  

I think at least the simplest one (commands via HOTAS) ED could do them...

[corbu1]

Actually, I gave up on using Vaicom in the AH64. 

I don‘t know on which side the issues are related, but it‘s no fun using both together.

Sometimes it works more or less, sometimes it doesn‘t. 
 

This is so sad!!

What is more realistic than simulating radio speech via voice recognition?

I haven‘t gave up all my hopes, that It will be working again. Though the disappearing of Hollywood ( I really hope he‘s well!!!) is now nearly 6 months ago.