requested Trying to connect the individuals that made the performance enhancement in VR to the DCS Devs.

[Dangerzone]

On 10/11/2022 at 3:24 AM, grasnabe said:

DCS and Multicore support / maybe Vulkan , is very very overdue. ED should really concentrate his  recources of this point... With all the new planes and Maps who are in pipline.... a Engine tuning is very usesfull and bring the sim in 2023. VR tunning is also mandatory... DCS in VR is breathtaking.......

have a 11900 CPU @5ghz and a 3090 . ad a 8kx.....

Greets my two cents.....

 

 

While I agree MT and Vulkan are the highest priority - it also depends on how far away this is. If we're talking another 6-12 months (or more) - then a segway for this OpenXR implementation if it costs even a week should definitely be a high priority and worth it to get more people by until MT/V is implemented. Honestly - if it wasn't for OpenXR I would have given up on DCS with the problems I was seeing with SteamVR. It really was a complete game changer (no pun intended). 

However, after saying that - well, Bignewy's post saying they "have their hands full" with MT seems to hint that it's not just 'Being worked on', but is indeed taking up significant resources (due to the hands full remark) so hopefully we're talking a very short time instead of a long time out for implementation, and I'm not just projecting my own optimistic fantasy in there.

Edit: Dang - I missed the purpose of this thread too - I assumed it was about OpenXR - but it's about foveated rendering. My apologies.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Dangerzone

[skywalker22]

On 10/10/2022 at 6:08 PM, mbucchia said:

Yes this makes little sense to me given how small and easy the ask is... it would take no longer than a lunch break to make this happen.

Not really sure what multithreading will give you all, since most of you seem to be GPU-limited instead (hence the ask for OpenXR Toolkit and foveated rendering).

As mentioned earlier, OpenXR Toolkit will not pick up any new features after November (because I need time off). So you have less than 2 months (so a total 7 months since the ask for this 30 minutes change was made...) or it will be gone forever

I would strongly suggest to ED team to grab @mbucchia's help until he is around to make DCS worth of flying in VR.

[edmuss]

Don't forget that this is primarily to enable eye tracked foveated rendering to work in DCS*, not to enable specifically integration of openxr into DCS.

Now I don't know how many pilots here have an eye tracking headset (aero/G2 omnicept/pimax would be most common I guess?) but I would hazard a guess that most of us don't have the capacity for eye tracking.  That's not to say that other functionality in openxr couldn't potentially be leveraged from the changes outlined in this thread.

For me it's going to make zero difference with regards to the foveated render, if it gives improvements in reprojection artifacting for example then it's a far more positive benefit for a wider range of users.

Frustrating that a theoretically relatively simple code change hasn't been implemented yet?  Yes, but it also isn't the end of the world given the small demographic that it will help directly; I would rather time is focused on the move to better multithreading and away from the DX11 limitations of the engine - this will help us all

edit:

*if there are other wider implications on openxr performance improvements in DCS then perhaps yes it should have more time.

Edited October 12, 2022 by edmuss

[Brzi_Joe]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb edmuss:

small demographic that it will help directly;

All vr headsets can use fixed goveated. 20+ % on gpu reduced. 

[edmuss]

Fixed foveated rendering has been working almost since the inception of using openxr toolkit with open composite in DCS, however this topic is about true foveated rendering which is only available with an eye tracking headset.  Now I know that the fixed foveated doesn't work on AMD cards unless it's in DX12 (so not in DCS then) but I don't think this proposed code change would specifically allow AMD cards to use the functionality.

You can achieve some good performance increases but at the cost of visual clarity, I typically see 1-1.5ms reduction in appGPU with it on quality/wide preset with almost imperceptible loss of image quality; I don't care for any more than that as I find the constant aliasing on the periphery distracting.

Edited October 12, 2022 by edmuss

[mbucchia]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:46 AM, edmuss said:

Fixed foveated rendering has been working almost since the inception of using openxr toolkit with open composite in DCS, however this topic is about true foveated rendering which is only available with an eye tracking headset.  Now I know that the fixed foveated doesn't work on AMD cards unless it's in DX12 (so not in DCS then) but I don't think this proposed code change would specifically allow AMD cards to use the functionality.

You can achieve some good performance increases but at the cost of visual clarity, I typically see 1-1.5ms reduction in appGPU with it on quality/wide preset with almost imperceptible loss of image quality; I don't care for any more than that as I find the constant aliasing on the periphery distracting.

 

[deleted]

Edited January 12, 2023 by mbucchia

[trevoC]

This would be nice, but as ED mentioned, I'd prefer multi-threaded support. I'm CPU limited by a country mile with a 20% OC'd 5900x while my 3090 doesn't break a sweat.

[zildac]

This would be nice, but as ED mentioned, I'd prefer multi-threaded support. I'm CPU limited by a country mile with a 20% OC'd 5900x while my 3090 doesn't break a sweat.

Everyone wants MT, it's al huge task hence the time required. We're talking about a possibly minor change to increase performance in the interim. It's frankly a no brainer.

[BIGNEWY]

Sorry all, I have no news to share, I will mention it to the team again but can make no promises. 

[edmuss]

3 hours ago, mbucchia said:

FFR today works horribly for Varjo and Pimax users due to this limitation. So it's not just about DFR, but also about making FFR work correctly everywhere.

Ah yes, had read about the issue in discord, thinking about it! Thanks for the clarification

[hannibal]

On 10/10/2022 at 12:24 PM, grasnabe said:

DCS and Multicore support / maybe Vulkan , is very very overdue. ED should really concentrate his  recources of this point... With all the new planes and Maps who are in pipline.... a Engine tuning is very usesfull and bring the sim in 2023. VR tunning is also mandatory... DCS in VR is breathtaking.......

have a 11900 CPU @5ghz and a 3090 . ad a 8kx.....

Greets my two cents.....

 

 

i just tried 4090 with samsung odyssey headset... textures high.. visibility ultra.. 2x MSAA..  90 fps though out.. it was joy. so smooth

4x MSAA brought it down to 70ish. (mind you i was running 2080Ti, and usually it was 50 fps with visibility medium

4 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Sorry all, I have no news to share, I will mention it to the team again but can make no promises. 

appreciate you to try to share the word.    

[Supmua]

4 hours ago, hannibal said:

i just tried 4090 with samsung odyssey headset... textures high.. visibility ultra.. 2x MSAA..  90 fps though out.. it was joy. so smooth

4x MSAA brought it down to 70ish. (mind you i was running 2080Ti, and usually it was 50 fps with visibility medium

appreciate you to try to share the word.    

90 fps? very nice.

[trevoC]

I'm surprised to hear the 4090 results are so high.

I'm currently CPU limited on a 3090 so figured it wouldn't make a difference. fps comparisons are difficult between people as the test map I use for seeing differences in fps (marianas in Huey on a specific course, when I get to the crane I measure performance) is 40 fps with extreme visibility and high settings with 4X msaa (this is well over 70-90 fps in fixed wing aircraft on other maps.

That being said, I see little (some but little) difference between some of these settings as I'm currently CPU limited on a watercooled 20% Overclocked 5900X.

3090 is usually sitting around 60% utilization while CPU is missing targets.

Would be interesting to see a 4090 on my exact setup before upgrading CPU to see if it makes a difference but the next setup will probably be a 13'th gen Intel to help with this.

This IMO is why Vulk./Multi-threading is so important.

I recognize many are limited by their graphics card, but I ran DCS in 2d on a 1070ti with head tracking in 4k very happily. One can't expect miracles from lower end hardware from their software.

If you are on modern/new hardware, you are most likely CPU bound and as these graphics cards are getting exponentially faster, being CPU bound will be a larger and larger problem with people moving forward.

I believe ED has chosen the correct item to address at the moment IMHO.

[mhe]

Since non-planar HMDs with eyetracking are the future, getting proper FFR and DFR to work with such little effort should be a no-brainer!

Once PSVR2 releases in February, pretty much nobody in their right mind will dare to release a headset without eyetracking anymore. DCS taking advantage of that should be desirable for obvious reasons. 

[zildac]

@BIGNEWY Any news regarding the team acknowledging this would be a very useful and what appears to be simple to implement

feature?

[nikoel]

1 hour ago, zildac said:

@BIGNEWY Any news regarding the team acknowledging this would be a very useful and what appears to be simple to implement

feature?

+1

I understand we are from outside looking in, and for the record I can’t implement this because of the AMD driver tax

Regardless, @mbucchia has done so much for the enjoyment of our sim; if anything, out of respect for the man and his team who went so far out their way for our relatively small community 

[freehand]

33 minutes ago, nikoel said:

+1

I understand we are from outside looking in, and for the record I can’t implement this because of the AMD driver tax

Regardless, @mbucchia has done so much for the enjoyment of our sim; if anything, out of respect for the man and his team who went so far out their way for our relatively small community 

Emotional blackmail is not going to cut it with ED lol. 

[nikoel]

20 minutes ago, freehand said:

Emotional blackmail is not going to cut it with ED lol. 

It has not cut it *so far* - in the meantime, Improvise. Adapt. Overcome

Either way, I think it's important. That is all

[Cab]

2 hours ago, zildac said:

@BIGNEWY Any news regarding the team acknowledging this would be a very useful and what appears to be simple to implement

feature?

Hasn’t Bignewy written that he’s using OpenXR?

[hannibal]

On 11/11/2022 at 7:53 AM, Cab said:

Hasn’t Bignewy written that he’s using OpenXR?

we were talking about allowing DCS allowing video stream to indicate which eye, so that fovated rendering can happen for VR users 

[Cab]

50 minutes ago, hannibal said:

we were talking about allowing DCS allowing video stream to indicate which eye, so that fovated rendering can happen for VR users 

I see. I think I confused this for a similar thread that discussed OpenXR in general.

Carry on.

[Sr.]

On 10/10/2022 at 11:08 AM, mbucchia said:

Yes this makes little sense to me given how small and easy the ask is... it would take no longer than a lunch break to make this happen.

Not really sure what multithreading will give you all, since most of you seem to be GPU-limited instead (hence the ask for OpenXR Toolkit and foveated rendering).

As mentioned earlier, OpenXR Toolkit will not pick up any new features after November (because I need time off). So you have less than 2 months (so a total 7 months since the ask for this 30 minutes change was made...) or it will be gone forever

this makes me sad 

[nikoel]

I agree

Talk about low hanging fruit -

Bignewy- we get 30min of dev time, you get to quiet all the complaining little bitchy girls in the VR discord. Hours of your time back 

limited time offer 

Edited January 12, 2023 by nikoel

[zildac]

Yup...looks like a simple to implement change. Shame. @BIGNEWY Can you nag the devs re this again please?

[BIGNEWY]

Nothing is as simple as you think it is.

At the moment focus is on multithreading, and DLSS / NIS 

We are also looking at shadow improvements, and LOD changes, native support for openXR, but it will take time. 

In the future vulkan and beyond. 

I have cleaned the thread a little, posts calling devs lazy isnt welcome. 

thank you