AlphaOneSix Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 position the heli where you want (be it a stationary hover, or just flying forward) then press the trimmer immediately before releasing the controls. The most realistic way to do it would be to press and hold the trimmer button, move the controls, then release the trimmer button. This is how it would be done in the real aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 So in a technical sense, the trim IS the autopilot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Well, the trim button is connected to the autopilot. The autopilot is still working with the button pressed, it just works differently, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Gotcha. :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jctrnacty Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Thanks I got it. [sigpic][/sigpic] MB MSI x570 Prestige Creation, RYzen 9 3900X, 32 Gb Ram 3333MHz, cooler Dark rock PRO 4, eVGA 1080Ti, 32 inch BenQ 32011pt, saitek X52Pro, HP Reverb, win 10 64bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 The most realistic way to do it would be to press and hold the trimmer button, move the controls, then release the trimmer button. This is how it would be done in the real aircraft. Hmm, I guess we have to specify the real aircraft then. In the real thing that will make you fly without any tension on the stick. I've flown on Ka-32 with pilots with 11000+ flight hours and they never do it. What they do is what the flight manual says- move the control, press and release the trim button. The tension is cancelled. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Sadly, I have no physical experience with Kamov birds, but what little experience I have in the Mi-17 and the AH-64, I would push against the springs, but when pressing the trim button, the instant release of that tension casued a jerk in the controls because I went from pushing against spring force, to suddenly pushing against no force. So instead, I would push the button, move the controls, and release the button. For very minor adjustments, such as during straight and level flight, I would just push against the springs as you have already mentioned. Thank you for the clarification, I just hope I'm half as helpful as you are when it's time for the AH-64 module. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Well, there is no strict rule how the pilot is supposed to do it. I guess it's a matter of habits and paritaly of systems (namely autopilot). On Ka-32 for instance trimming doesn't cause noticeable jerk of the controls. I've tested it myself many times on ground during maintenance with ground hydraulic power and the cyclic do tends to jump in your hands if you don't hold it strong enough but usualy on these flight controls tests we move the controls so rapidly that would never occur in flight. IRL I see the pilots make very slight movements, almost unoticeable, but they keep on pressing and releasing that button. The Apache- well, it's a terra incognita for me :) Gotta read a lot about it to get a basis for correct assessment. But since it also has force trim system it should work exactly the same way. For example Agusta 109E Power has also force trim and the button even is on the same place on the cyclic as the russian helicopters. There is no room for diferent solutions with this system. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esac_mirmidon Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 AlphaOneSix and AirTito... IS A PLEASSURE reading you. In a couple of post i have learned more about trim than years before reading docs and PDF about several aircrafts and helicopters. Having this kind of talents here is an honour... Keep posting, always a nice reading... 1 " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crissiloop Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Trimmer doesn´t work Hello, I have read all the posts about the trimmer, but it doesn´t work. I can steer without problems with pushing the Trimmer Button or without. When i´m flying straight with a current speed and i push the trim button i realize, that the nose go down a little bit more. Then i instantly remove the stick to neutral. But the nose goes up to the sky and the beast looses the speed. I´ve tried several timings with releasing stick after pushing the Trimmer; but no chance to get it work. Any ideas? crissiloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Only one idea- practice. And read the trimming posts again, including FAQ. Sorry, but this is how it is. The trim works perfectly is one of best features of Black Shark. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 AlphaOneSix and AirTito... IS A PLEASSURE reading you. In a couple of post i have learned more about trim than years before reading docs and PDF about several aircrafts and helicopters. Having this kind of talents here is an honour... Keep posting, always a nice reading... Have to agree here 100%. Prior to reading your explanations I was at a loss regarding the trim, and continually fighting the heli inflight. I was starting to think the Trim was on the bug list to be fixed. Now i can fly hands free a lot more, and enjoy the view, and am far less likly to crash while inputing the pit. Thankyou :) Im starting to get the hang of this sim as you can see from this screenshot from last nights flight ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I'm glad we've helped you guys to enjoy the sim even more. You felt frustrated in the beggining? It wouldn't be normal if you didn't ;) BS and DCS in general is built with totaly new philosophy- the so called learning curve. First you read, then you train, then read again, then train some more and step by step you'll get there. And the deeper you go the bigger the fun and satisfaction. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badaboom Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I've learned alot about trim from this thread also,Thank you guys! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid_DK Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I'm glad we've helped you guys to enjoy the sim even more. You felt frustrated in the beggining? It wouldn't be normal if you didn't ;) BS and DCS in general is built with totaly new philosophy- the so called learning curve. First you read, then you train, then read again, then train some more and step by step you'll get there. And the deeper you go the bigger the fun and satisfaction. I can relate to that... now most of my landings are done without killing myself or the not so innocents.. Great philosophy to bring to these more serious games. Staffan http://www.ipms.dk i7 9700K, Asus Z390 Prime A, Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4, GeForce RTX 2080 Ti STRIX ROG, Fractal Design Define R6, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind, Oculus Rift S. 32 GB 3200 MHz RAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tank000 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I wonder if this video explains whats going on for us non-heli pilots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Yes, and that "jerk" at 2:25 is exactly what I was talking about in previous posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 And as you can see that "jerk" is only noticeable when the pilot holds the cyclic carelessly with two fingers. When he holds it with whole hand there is no such thing- 2:06. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 So you're caling me a limp-wristed pansy?!?! ;) Just kidding, I agree with your observations completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitesse2l Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Being slightly limp-wristed, I was having problems with "the jerk" on my MS FFB stick. Just too powerful, and my Ka-50 was dancing across the sky. After reading this thread, I had the trimming routine sorted out in the first training mission (the FFB does not work when you take control) and was very comfortable. Once FFB is working (all other missions) it was a different story I've used the BS control options to reduce the feedback to an acceptable level. 30 is working for me. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Ok...Im one who believes that you need to know it works before you try to work it. Im one of them guys who reads the manual on the john before I play with the new toy. This is the primary cause of many dumb looks on males faces for many many centuries! :D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob426 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I got the hang of the trimming procedure and thought I managed pretty well untill I bumped into a problem. I'm using a Saitek x52 Pro and up untill recently I used the joystick twist function as rudder, didn't really like the feeling of it so I figured I could plug an old Force Feedback Wheel in and use those pedals as rudder. It worked great except for one thing, the game now think I have a force feedback joystick and therefore the trimming gets a bit tricky since I have to keep the joystick in the position it was when I trimmed to get it to work properly. I've tried to find an option to disable the force feedback but with no luck so far, Is there anyone who might know a solution for this? I'm guessing there's some way to do this in the LUA files but I'm not very good with those things. If anyone else bumped into this problem and found a solution I would be very gratefull, I really can't afford a set of real rudder pedals at the moment so this is pretty much the only way for me to do it. Thanks in advance /Jacob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 (edited) I think you can disable force feedback in the joystick config panel in-game. Ill see if I can find out where exactly it is. Run BS, open options, hit the control tab, scroll down to axis (red shade text), at the very bottom of the menu there is FF tune. You can disable it here by imputting 0 for the ranges AFAIK. Edited November 23, 2008 by hitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crissiloop Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Ok some testing later and after reading last post i figured out, that the trim function only work for the rudder axis. In game i activated the display of the current inputs with "RCtrl+Enter" and now i can see that after releasing the trim button the axxis of the rudder stays in the position. But not the pitch and roll axis. Then i checked the FF-Settings ( FF-Tune) for all the axis and all Settings are 0, so that force feedback should be disabled? Or isn´t it? I should say, that i use the pedals of a Logitech Momo Racing Wheel (Force Feedback for the wheel) and a X-52 Joystick. Also when i use the rudder-axis of the X-52 the problem is the same. Any ideas? crissiloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Disconnect the wheel and see what happens ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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