reported Bombs in salvos destroy each other instead of damaging target

[MBot]

See attached track. Two identical frigates are bombed, the first with one Mk-83 the second with two Mk-83. Despite being attacked by two bombs, the second frigate gets the same amount of damage. The log only registers one hit for each frigate.

It seems as if the first bomb exploding in the salvo is destroying the second bomb, without the second bomb causing any damage whatsoever.

 

 

 

BombDamage.trk

Edited July 10, 2022 by MBot

[Hobel]

This applies to almost all weapons.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Hobel

[Frederf]

Fragging of bombs by other bombs is a real life consideration and will change the damaging effects.

[Hobel]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Frederf:

Fragging of bombs by other bombs is a real life consideration and will change the damaging effects.

hm doesn't seem to be the case here?

 

[Frederf]

I have a vid of a I think B-1 drop that demonstrates.

[Hobel]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Frederf:

I have a vid of a I think B-1 drop that demonstrates.

can you share the link here, i would love to see it?

[Frederf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1pU8VFEVFg

Looks like a couple at 0:25

[MBot]

3 hours ago, Frederf said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1pU8VFEVFg

Looks like a couple at 0:25

What we see here are premature detonations.

What we see in DCS are bombs that are neutralized without going off and without dealing any damage on their own.

[Frederf]

Sympathetic detonation! I've been trying to remember the official term for that behavior.  Anyway: Certainly, but that's a separate issue. They might go off early (RL might be less sensitive) but DCS having zero damage from a symp. det. bomb is unrealistic. Are you sure the other "deleted" bomb is doing zero damage? DCS has relatively small blast radii in general.

[Hobel]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Frederf:

Are you sure the other "deleted" bomb is doing zero damage?

yes, very sure, his tests show that too.

If they drop the bombs one after the other, the ship also receives more damage, but the one bomb fizzles out that way when both reach the target at the same time

And the video also shows very well that this is not always the case, in fact it happens less often.

[Frederf]

The difference between single bombs is they travel all the way. I'm saying the "fizzile" bomb may be making a damage bubble but because the bomb explodes too far from the target that damage potential might not overlap with the ship physically thus causing no damage to the ship but it might for example a helicopter hoving near the fizzle point.

[Cmptohocah]

On 7/10/2022 at 8:22 PM, Frederf said:

Fragging of bombs by other bombs is a real life consideration and will change the damaging effects.

The issue here is that Su-27/MiG-29 can only release bombs in pairs and if you need to do a run on a comand post with bunker busters, you either carry the second bomb as dead weight or you load the bombs asymetrically.

[Cmptohocah]

On 7/10/2022 at 8:22 PM, Frederf said:

Fragging of bombs by other bombs is a real life consideration and will change the damaging effects.

The issue here is that Su-27/MiG-29 can only release bombs in pairs and if you need to do a run on a comand post with bunker busters, you either carry the second bomb as dead weight or you load the bombs asymetrically.

Here, for example, one can see that RL BetAB concrete-pearcing bombs don't really interferre with each other:

https://youtu.be/Hl94r54b73w

[Ironhand]

Out of curiosity, I took a look at this last night and found it interesting. Whether or not this problem exists, seems to depend on where the bombs hit. Intervening superstructure or whatever makes a difference.

In MBot's TRK, this is where the bombs hit. Notice the bomb circled in red. That's the one that doesn't explode. The one higher up in the frame explodes a split second after this screen was taken and it's the only hit that is recorded.

 

Using MBot's TRK, I swapped out the aircraft to something I could fly and tried to put something substantial between the bombs. The result: The circled bomb also exploded once it hit.

Just wanted to toss that out there. It's not a given that only 1 of 2 will be scored a hit.

[Exorcet]

Bombs also have the issue of clipping into each other and exploding

 

All 12 bombs destroyed.

[Draken35]

The problem does exist... I have a range script that uses the hit event to determine if the weapons had any effect on target and it also projects the trajectory of the bomb to accurately report the impact position (weapon object is destroyed upon impact with the collision box of the target)... I've seen reports of "no effect" even thought the impact position is within range of the effect for the second bomb in a pair... It is not common in my experience, but it does happens, weapons in DCS get destroyed, without detonating , by close detonations... 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3322227/

[Hobel]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Draken35:

The problem does exist... I have a range script that uses the hit event to determine if the weapons had any effect on target and it also projects the trajectory of the bomb to accurately report the impact position (weapon object is destroyed upon impact with the collision box of the target)... I've seen reports of "no effect" even thought the impact position is within range of the effect for the second bomb in a pair... It is not common in my experience, but it does happens, weapons in DCS get destroyed, without detonating , by close detonations... 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3322227/

That sounds good, would it be possible to share the script?

 

Have you ever tested whether unguided rockets destroy each other when they explode on impact?

 

  

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Ironhand:

Out of curiosity, I took a look at this last night and found it interesting. Whether or not this problem exists, seems to depend on where the bombs hit. Intervening superstructure or whatever makes a difference.

In MBot's TRK, this is where the bombs hit. Notice the bomb circled in red. That's the one that doesn't explode. The one higher up in the frame explodes a split second after this screen was taken and it's the only hit that is recorded.

I think this simply has something to do with the ship's hitbox, the bomb that didn't explode simply didn't hit the hitbox but only the texture.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Hobel

[Ironhand]

50 minutes ago, Hobel said:

…I think this simply has something to do with the ship's hitbox, the bomb that didn't explode simply didn't hit the hitbox but only the texture.

 

That’s probably true some of the time. But the “box” rises and falls with the superstructure. Plus you would think that the deck would be included especially when a waterline hit against the hull is included. But who knows? [Edit: Actually I do know that on the one occasion I checked, the bomb which didn’t score as a hit simply disappeared when it’s companion exploded. It was no longer selectable with F6.]

My purpose in posting was simply to say that, when I tried to replicate MBot’s experience, I could. But it was just as likely (actually more than likely in my admittedly small sample) that both bombs would be “scored”.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Ironhand

[Draken35]

1 hour ago, Ironhand said:

That’s probably true some of the time. But the “box” rises and falls with the superstructure. Plus you would think that the deck would be included especially when a waterline hit against the hull is included. But who knows? [Edit: Actually I do know that on the one occasion I checked, the bomb which didn’t score as a hit simply disappeared when it’s companion exploded. It was no longer selectable with F6.]

My purpose in posting was simply to say that, when I tried to replicate MBot’s experience, I could. But it was just as likely (actually more than likely in my admittedly small sample) that both bombs would be “scored”.

 

If you have TacView, you can actually see the bomb exploding when it hit the target collision/hit box...

 

@Hobel A much simpler example of the range mission/script attached ... vFG 476 targets needed... A/C types or names are not important, so replace then as you wish/need.

CA BSA.miz

[NineLine]

I am seeing two issues in this thread I think.

1) explosion of one bomb destroying other bombs

2) bomb collision and detonation

I will look into this, I believe some work is being done on #2 already, the bombs need collision models, right now they can pass through many things if not armed yet. 

I think for 1, if 1 bomb somehow detonates another bomb, that second bomb should still do the appropriate damage, but perhaps its not right now, again I will dig into it.

Thanks!

23 hours ago, Exorcet said:

Bombs also have the issue of clipping into each other and exploding

 

All 12 bombs destroyed.

Do you have the track for this?

[NineLine]

Ok, all this is reported, thanks guys!