George won't fire any hellfires

[Mobius010]

Hello,

 

I have had this problem for so many times now that it is getting pretty annoying. The problem is that George wont fire any hellfires at all for some reason. It happends sporadically and I have no idea what I am doing wrong or why it is happening.

Situation:
- I spawn in the Apache
- Rearm with hellfires
- Fly towards the AO 
- Select Hellfire, a target and wait untill I am around 7/8 km from the target
- I tell george to fire but nothing is happening

This is a short video of what happend: 
https://easyupload.io/gfagxt

This is the trackfile: 
https://easyupload.io/g86y10

[Kharrn]

dont take it rude please, just a quick answer cause i dont have much time. I could only watch the vid for now.

a) overflowing George with "orders". give George time to react. he will still fire if you are IN CONSTRAINTS and provice a STABLE platform;

b) be in constraints (big square "box" for LOBL shot) for a first detent weapon shot: afaik George will fire weapons using the "first detent". at the beginning of the vid you can see "YAW LIMIT" for a second. That is one error of not beeing in constraints. ALso provide a stable platform, meaning keep the AH64 stable and in a good firing position. George will still launch after some sec if you gave him "consent to fire";

c) dont WAS the missiles for yourself if you want George to fire them. afaik this may cause errors in that the missile will need time to spool up again. if GEorge is lasing the target you can WAS the missiles for yourself and shoot them (remember trigger guard off).

d) dont overflow George with "orders"

e) sometimes MSL TYPE? bug can still appear. but from what i saw you need to give George a stable platform. your inputs where a little "strong".

 

Hope that might help a bit!

Best of luck

K

 

[Mobius010]

dont take it rude please, just a quick answer cause i dont have much time. I could only watch the vid for now.
a) overflowing George with "orders". give George time to react. he will still fire if you are IN CONSTRAINTS and provice a STABLE platform;
b) be in constraints (big square "box" for LOBL shot) for a first detent weapon shot: afaik George will fire weapons using the "first detent". at the beginning of the vid you can see "YAW LIMIT" for a second. That is one error of not beeing in constraints. ALso provide a stable platform, meaning keep the AH64 stable and in a good firing position. George will still launch after some sec if you gave him "consent to fire";
c) dont WAS the missiles for yourself if you want George to fire them. afaik this may cause errors in that the missile will need time to spool up again. if GEorge is lasing the target you can WAS the missiles for yourself and shoot them (remember trigger guard off).
d) dont overflow George with "orders"
e) sometimes MSL TYPE? bug can still appear. but from what i saw you need to give George a stable platform. your inputs where a little "strong".
 
Hope that might help a bit!
Best of luck
K
 

No hard feelings sir!

A) even when I don't overflow George with commands he still doesn't fire. I do admit that I give him "alot" of orders but even when I give him some time to fire the hellfire he still doesn't fire it.

B) I was stable when I tried to fire the missiles yet he still didn't fire it.

C) Even when I don't WAS the hellfires he still doesn't fire it

D) I think that is the problem/bug. For some reason if you overload him he just messes up the Hellfires. Even when I give him some time to fire he still doesn't shoot, because I overload him with orders before.
Like I said, this happens sometimes.
I have flown even worse and he still fires a hellfire.

E) read D

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A525F met Tapatalk

[Bunny Clark]

Sometimes when you rearm George gets confused and selects Radar Hellfires. To solve it you need to hop into the gunners seat and manually change Type to SAL.

[Mobius010]

Sometimes when you rearm George gets confused and selects Radar Hellfires. To solve it you need to hop into the gunners seat and manually change Type to SAL.

Hmm I only play multiplayer so that is kinda difficult. But good to know that issue, thanks!

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A525F met Tapatalk

[salsantana]

That's a "me too"; many great ideas here. Do you ever consider whether or not you can purge the queue and start over, and/or if it is even possible? I'll post this as a standalone topic that may also reveal some obscure facts about George's inexplicable decision/execution behaviors. I'm finding what seems to be a new quirk I hadn't seen prior to most recent update..... I can't fire cannon when there seems to be too many stored targets; I have to wait for all missiles to be delivered before the system relinquishes the cannon to me.

[Floyd1212]

George isn’t making a mental queue of targets that he has to deal with before moving on to other things. And what George is doing with lasing and launching hellfires shouldn’t impact your ability to WAS the gun from the back seat using your HMD as the sight, and delivering rounds on target.

Perhaps a screenshot of your HUD when the gun isn’t working for you will help us troubleshoot the issue. Or even better, a short track file. 

[Derbroomaster]

Was there ever an answer for this? I run into this a lot myself, including just last night when flying with my squadron. It's beyond annoying.

 

[sirrah]

22 hours ago, Derbroomaster said:

Was there ever an answer for this? I run into this a lot myself, including just last night when flying with my squadron. It's beyond annoying.

 

Can you maybe share the track file here? That way we could take a closer look.

 

I fly the Apache a lot (might even consider it my favorite DCS module), but I can't say I've ever had any issues with George not firing missiles (well, maybe very early on after EA relsease, but not in the past 1,5 year I'd say). The only times I experience George not firing, is due to me being too far away from the target, or my piloting had George lose LOS)

 

[Floyd1212]

I have an issue with George not rifling on occasion, but it’s hard to say if it is the exact issue you are seeing or not.

In my case, it is often after a rearm, and George will say he is engaging, but there is no missile constraints box visible in the HMD, and no missile comes off the rail.

The solution is to SAFE the aircraft from the back seat, at which point George immediately ARMs it again, and all is working again. This may be due to having Ground Override turned on when landing to rearm, and some desync with the front and his laser not working. 

[admiki]

Why would you land with GO in the first place?

SOP is to safe the aircraft.

[Floyd1212]

I wasn’t following SOP.

[Fakum]

I dont have anything to add to this at this time but i will say that I have been following this myself. Reason being, I have found myself is situations where George wont fire, even with clear line of sight, no YAW or Ballistic limits etc.  I have gotten way to close to targets in the past just waiting for George to rifle one out but had to retreat and extend. I could never figure out the right combination to get it reset, sometimes I found that ARM/REARM didnt do the trick either. I have been in the habit of quickly shutting off George AI, ARM/REARM, WAS another weapon, then WAS back to missile and bring George AI back and then prosecute the same target again without issue. I never saved the Track file because its usually very deep into a mission when I experience this, so i dont bother. Im hoping to see this recognized and a solution perhaps posted etc. Im just chiming in to support those who are experiencing the same occasionally.

[Derbroomaster]

So far, what works for me to help avoid this situation is to ensure I don't use Ground Override when starting up in order to pre-set things for me as the pilot.

Once in flight, if I still encounter AI not firing even with clear line of sight, no YAW or Ballistic limits, I do one or more of the following:

*Cycle Master Arm off, then on.

*If "Missile Type?" shows in the TADS, hop in the CPG seat and cycle Missile Select (Salvo vs RF, iirc), then come back to the Pilot's Seat.

*Have George AI cease fire, then have him WAS the Hellfires again.

I've been able to wake him up using one of these. Annoying, but it works.

[Derbroomaster]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:04 AM, Derbroomaster said:

So far, what works for me to help avoid this situation is to ensure I don't use Ground Override when starting up in order to pre-set things for me as the pilot.

Once in flight, if I still encounter AI not firing even with clear line of sight, no YAW or Ballistic limits, I do one or more of the following:

*Cycle Master Arm off, then on.

*If "Missile Type?" shows in the TADS, hop in the CPG seat and cycle Missile Select (Salvo vs RF, iirc), then come back to the Pilot's Seat.

*Have George AI cease fire, then have him WAS the Hellfires again.

I've been able to wake him up using one of these. Annoying, but it works.

This no longer works. Nor should it really have to be something any of us must do to get this to work.

I just came out of a very frustrating session where George lased an SA-8 repeatedly from range, then finally said we were in range. 

Gave consent to fire repeatedly. Nothing.

I have included log and track files. This really needs to be addressed, please.

 

@BIGNEWY @Flappie

PersianGulf_006-20240713-144542.trk dcs.log

[GeoS72]

@BIGNEWY & @Flappie,

I'd like to piggy back on @Derbroomaster's remarks. George AI will lase a target every 5 seconds (approx) when outside of 8 km to obtain range information. Inside 8km, the lase logic is delayed to some ambiguous time. This process is very persistent when using the AGM-114L (Radar Hellfire) missile. Furthermore, George AI will not fire even when there is a clear line-of-sight to the target and the helo is within launch parameters. Press "Consent to Fire" all you want; George AI will not comply.

I'd also like to point out that after lasing a target outside 10km will also allow the range to falsely count down and then stop. This fake countdown process will continue until the helo is within 9km from a target. What is the link between number of instances George AI lases a target beyond 8km, laser range data countdown beyond 10km, infrequent lasing within 8km, and failing to fire AGM-114Ls after consent was given?

One more parting shot: George AI will frequently fail to lase a target. I have to manually cycle between Missile and No WAS modes just to get the George AI to lase a target in a "timely" fashion.

Derbroomaster and I flew in the same mission today. So here is a link to my track file (much larger than his) and my DCS log.

Persian Gulf 006 Track File link

I'd certainly like to see some resolution to this persistent and annoying problem. Would moving this thread into the Bugs section may be more appropriate?

dcs.log

[GeoS72]

Here are DCS log & Track files from a Fast Mission (creation) that was in the Sinai map. This track should show the number of times that I had to manually cycle George AI from WAS'ing MSL to De-WAS then back to MSL in order to get ranging info. A lot of the time, this range was under 5km. There were also several instances of George AI not firing after consecutive consent to fire orders were given.

dcs.log LastMissionTrack.trk

Edited July 13, 2024 by GeoS72
Create Fast Mission not Instant Action

[GeoS72]

Here is another DCS log and link to a Fast Mission from the Sinai map. I also do not understand why this thread is heavily restricted with file sizes. The link is about 18.5 MB and showcases the problem of firing on the VERY last target, a T-72 MBT.

DH Fast Mission-Sinai-Last Tank refuse to fire.

dcs.log

[Blackhawk163]

Is this map specific? I don't have Sinai, but I loaded up the AGM65 L for Ghost Farp in Caucus and George did his job. Although to be fair I didn't take note on the RTT and probably I was within 5-7km. I tried both modes of autonomy for George.

[GeoS72]

No, the problem is not specific to Sinai map. This problem happens on any map. I used Sinai to report 2 different problems; hitting 2 birds with 1 stone.

[Blackhawk163]

Gotcha. I’m a try a test range mission to see if I can replicate. The reason why this interests me is that I ran an instant mission yesterday (I think Tiblisi guard) and I had a clear LOS to some tanks and George was like nope. Not knowing anything about this thread I cycled through a couple of times until he would fire. It was super frustrating but luckily the ai wingman bailed me out. After the initial armored column was destroyed there was a column of AA and some trucks that start rolling through. It was here where George also refused commands to fire on the SAM launchers despite a clear LOS. 
 

The problem is that I haven’t been able to replicate it now and it was the AGM K’s not the Ls for that one mission 

[Blackhawk163]

Okay, I got the bug in the Syria mission that "restricts" you to AGM 11K, and no matter what I did, George would not fire a single missile. Not one. Waz over to guns? No problem, so it's not an LOS issue or RTT. Switch over to the L's and no problem, fires away like its handing out candy in Halloween.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Blackhawk163
Syria not Sinai

[GeoS72]

Thank you, @Blackhawk163 for confirming the problem. Now that you could replicate the discrepancy, could you please submit a DCS log & track file associated with a similar event?

I'd like to reiterate that these problems are prevalent when firing AGM-114K (radar guided) Hellfire.

[Blackhawk163]

So I was able to get George to fire, but I had armed the fcr from the backseat beforehand as I don’t ever play in the front seat. I got home kinda late so I’ll try tomorrow in the am without arming the fcr. Coincidentally I cannot arm the hellfire k from the back seat if the fcr is set to the primary. I get msl not rdy or msl select? (Or whatever it it is) No matter what I do. Turn the fcr off and I am able to waz them right up. 

Edited July 16, 2024 by Blackhawk163

[Derbroomaster]

As @GeoS72 said, please submit a track file and/or log file for the session you're describing. Hopefully something will be done if enough people supply these files.