Radar clutter issue

[skywalker22]

Check it out how the noise should be represented on the radar.

This is a video clip filming Greek`s F1.

Also check the radar cursor:

Edited July 22, 2022 by skywalker22

[Rhinozherous]

I think we get pretty the same representation as in the video... the cursor (strobe) looks different but this is down to different versions and maybe changes made by the greek airforce.

[Lt_Jaeger]

The noise should also a function of the video gain hopefully adjustable. I have no idea whatsoever about the Mirage, but definitely looking forward to dive into it. 

[skywalker22]

The noise (dots 1x1 pixel) are completely differently represented. In DCS it looks like they move on some predefined logic, while IRL you can see how different the shape of the "dots" is, and also different each sweep. Way different, and also the color is not that much strikingly green.

Edited July 21, 2022 by skywalker22

[Lt_Jaeger]

Like I said, that has a lot to do with how you adjust the scope. I was working a long time with analoge radars and you can "base adjust" that the noise is barely visible or pretty strong. Then it makes a huge different if the transmitter is on and if, what is in front of the antenna (not talking about ground clutter but more about general "reflect-ifness (if there is such word). I would love a more true to life representation as we got until now with any" analoge" radar in the appropriate modules. 

 

[cmbaviator]

1 hour ago, skywalker22 said:

The noise (dots 1x1 pixel) are completely differently represented. In DCS it looks like they move on some predefined logic, while IRL you can see how different the shape of the "dots" is, and also different each sweep. Way different, and also the color is not that much strikingly green.

 

should be quite easy to implement, just add a random generator for those clutters

[Northstar98]

10 hours ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

Like I said, that has a lot to do with how you adjust the scope. I was working a long time with analoge radars and you can "base adjust" that the noise is barely visible or pretty strong. Then it makes a huge different if the transmitter is on and if, what is in front of the antenna (not talking about ground clutter but more about general "reflect-ifness (if there is such word). I would love a more true to life representation as we got until now with any" analoge" radar in the appropriate modules.

I think the point is more that the noise looks a lot more scripted and maybe "faked" than say the clutter presentation in say, the F-14.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Northstar98

[Lt_Jaeger]

1 minute ago, Northstar98 said:

I think the point is that the noise looks a lot more scripted and maybe "faked" than say the clutter presentation in say, the F-14

Ah, OK, guess I miss understood then. 

Sorry

[Northstar98]

5 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

Ah, OK, guess I miss understood then. 

Sorry

No worries, all good

The F-14 and Mirage 2000 really spoil us with radar presentation, so it does seem like more of a step backwards compared to those - however this is Aerges first radar, so IMO it's pretty unfair to expect a radar to the same quality on day 1. There's definitely room for improvement in the presentation though.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Northstar98

[Lt_Jaeger]

I bought the F1 right away, but are away from my computer for another 3 weeks. First time in ages I'm looking forward to come back from vacation. 

 

So I not only bought the module but also 3 weeks of big fixing, maybe something happened by then, we will see 

[skywalker22]

39 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

I think the point is more that the noise looks a lot more scripted and maybe "faked" than say the clutter presentation in say, the F-14.

 

Exactly.

But Im sure they will fix that in a matter of few updates. They need time to study. Specially now when we mentioned it here.

[EnzoF98]

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

I think the point is more that the noise looks a lot more scripted and maybe "faked" than say the clutter presentation in say, the F-14.

 

I'm getting clutter while in the middle of an empty Black Sea, don't think I should be getting any radar returns at all.

[Northstar98]

7 hours ago, EnzoF98 said:

I'm getting clutter while in the middle of an empty Black Sea, don't think I should be getting any radar returns at all.

You can get clutter from the sea, but a much better implementation of that can be found in the Mirage 2000C (where the intensity of the clutter is a function of wind speed as that's the only variable DCS takes into account when dealing with waves).

Of course, low down and in hilly terrain you should expect more clutter and high-up over flat, featureless terrain and large bodies of water less clutter.

But yeah, the current clutter implementation doesn't seem to account for anything and is more or less a faked effect.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Northstar98

[skywalker22]

Has there been anything done regarding radar in the latest update?

ps: someone can please move this thread to "wish list".

[Harlikwin]

On 7/21/2022 at 4:38 AM, cmbaviator said:

should be quite easy to implement, just add a random generator for those clutters

Funny thing being "clutter" isn't random. They could develop and actual clutter model like Razbam has done, and then add how MTI filtering works to remove some of it (poorly). I posted the actual code they could use as an example of how to do this earlier.

Also, there should be no clutter above the horizon like there is now (well clouds I guess, but clouds don't exist for any other system in DCS rn either). Unless you are at really low alt and eating sidelobe returns. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Harlikwin