Why no radar altimeter?

[gulredrel]

Hello,

can anybody explain why Dassault did not mount a radar altimeter on the Mirage F1 as we have it here?

Do some other versions have one? As it's not an early jet and capable of ILS and other bad weather navigation equipment I wondered why there is no radar altimeter.

Which books on the F1, preferably in English, are recommended?

Thanks

Jens

[sedenion]

It would be surprising this specific version don't have it... I suspect it is not yet implemented and should be the one displayed on the HUD.

Edited August 20, 2022 by sedenion

[IvanK]

Many F1 variants have Radio Altimeters fitted just not this variant.

[=475FG= Dawger]

There seems to be a great fear of math related to the F1.

[Tiger-II]

9 hours ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

There seems to be a great fear of math related to the F1.

Developer or user?

[Bremspropeller]

On 8/20/2022 at 5:23 PM, gulredrel said:

Do some other versions have one? As it's not an early jet and capable of ILS and other bad weather navigation equipment I wondered why there is no radar altimeter.

Because it's predominantly a high(er) altitude interceptor. As others have said, Dassault built to user-spec, so if it's not in, Spain didn't ask for it.

On 8/20/2022 at 5:23 PM, gulredrel said:

Which books on the F1, preferably in English, are recommended?

None, quite frankly. You'll have to go en francais, mon ami. The closest thing is prolly one of the Jane's journals, but that's only one chapter about the F1, so it's not quite a book.

The best book on the F1 is the two volume LeLaPresse edition. Vol 2 is only about the F1 in service. Vol 1 is more of the development history and other projects, such as the Mirage G. Maybe you can find a Vol 2 in the bay. Prepare to say goodbye to lots of cash, though.

[=475FG= Dawger]

1 hour ago, Tiger-II said:

Developer or user?

User. RA is unnecessary equipment in this fighter.

[Nealius]

I'd argue that RA is unneccessary for anything that doesn't have a bombing computer that uses RA for ballistics calculation 

[JudgementalRooster]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

I'd argue that RA is unneccessary for anything that doesn't have a bombing computer that uses RA for ballistics calculation 

Trust your heart luke.

[gulredrel]

Okay, thanks. For an interceptor not needed, indeed and the ground attack capability later on without advanced features like CCIP, you won't need it. And the user in Spain can live with it, because of the best weather  

Let's wait for the other variants to arrive and how they differ in cockpit layout and so on.

[Dscross]

While the F1 CE doesn't have a radar altimeter...it does have a radar, if you catch my drift. Just like in the F5 or the A4, point the nose at the ground and wait until you get a return, thus, radar measuring the distance to the ground. Know the elevation of your target, and your own altitude above sea level. Anyway, there are lots of way's to do it, and everyone kind of has their own formula. Keep working with it, think a bit outside the box, and practice and you'll develop your own way of doing things that works for you. Or, like in the Redkite video, you can set one altimeter to read zero at target elevation, then use your backup altimeter for general flight. Personally, I really don't like doing it that way, as I want my altimeter to always read my altitude above sea level, but that's me. 

(or just wing it, it's not like if you miss, you'll really bomb an orphaned puppy shelter / children's hospital.)  

[MAXsenna]

54 minutes ago, Dscross said:

Just like in the F5 or the A4, point the nose at the ground and wait until you get a return, thus, radar measuring the distance to the ground.

Cool. That's a neat little trick, (the A-4E-C has it though, but is limited to 1500', or was it 5000'?). 

55 minutes ago, Dscross said:

Know the elevation of your target, and your own altitude above sea level.

If you already know this. Why use the radar? 

58 minutes ago, Dscross said:

Or, like in the Redkite video, you can set one altimeter to read zero at target elevation,

That depends on where you are. And I guess that's why people ask. In any case this is covered in the training missions.  

[Dscross]

13 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Cool. That's a neat little trick, (the A-4E-C has it though, but is limited to 1500', or was it 5000'?). 

If you already know this. Why use the radar? 

That depends on where you are. And I guess that's why people ask. In any case this is covered in the training missions.  

If you know target elevation, and the Radar you know when to release to follow a bombing table. You can do it with slant ranges and height above ground to make drops that don't fall within the bombing tables.

For example during the Vietnam War US warplanes would sometimes bomb from higher altitude using a known speed, altitude above ground, and (the best part) a tacan offset. F105s in flight would sometimes drop this way. The whole flight releasing bombs at once based on their distance and bearing from a tacan station. 

Oh, and the known factors you put into a bombing plan, the closer you can get your bombs to target. 

I've been working on and off on gathering bomb fall data while doing level-tacan offset bombing. So the more information I can put in, the more accurate my bombs will be.

As you can imagine, high altitude tacan offset-level bombing isn't terribly accurate, but it's also not as inaccurate as you might imagine. And it's both a flight and navigation challenge, flying a perfect profile and releasing when the stopwatch or tacan says. It's fun. For me, some people just want a ccip/ccrp bomb fall line. Which is fun as well. Fly it how you want type of thing. 

[MAXsenna]

If you know target elevation, and the Radar you know when to release to follow a bombing table. You can do it with slant ranges and height above ground to make drops that don't fall within the bombing tables.
For example during the Vietnam War US warplanes would sometimes bomb from higher altitude using a known speed, altitude above ground, and (the best part) a tacan offset. F105s in flight would sometimes drop this way. The whole flight releasing bombs at once based on their distance and bearing from a tacan station. 
Oh, and the known factors you put into a bombing plan, the closer you can get your bombs to target. 
I've been working on and off on gathering bomb fall data while doing level-tacan offset bombing. So the more information I can put in, the more accurate my bombs will be.
As you can imagine, high altitude tacan offset-level bombing isn't terribly accurate, but it's also not as inaccurate as you might imagine. And it's both a flight and navigation challenge, flying a perfect profile and releasing when the stopwatch or tacan says. It's fun. For me, some people just want a ccip/ccrp bomb fall line. Which is fun as well. Fly it how you want type of thing. 

Gotha! Thanks!

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[grim_reaper68]

Hi if you look at the right of the HUD, there is à radio altimeter, but it goes only up to 1900 ft, or am i wrong?

[MAXsenna]

Hi if you look at the right of the HUD, there is à radio altimeter, but it goes only up to 1900 ft, or am i wrong?

It's based on the altimeter, so no radar altitude.

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