reported earlier CBU-97/105 inaccuracy

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Has this been fixed yet ? (october).
105's hit good, but the 97's are still way off ?

 

[BIGNEWY]

Was fixed, if you are seeing issues please attach a short track replay example

 

thanks

[Hotdognz]

Im also still hitting short with all the MK82 models too in CCIP, ill try and get a track

[Buschwick]

Last night I dropped 12 snakeyes spaced 250ft on Hoggit's training server on the line of trucks on the small airfield.  Centered the pipper on the intersection and blanketed the entire runway.  I did end up with CCRP queues though while holding pickle for about 10 seconds until they started dropping.  It worked flawlessly.

Hotdognz...by any chance were you dropping more than one?  If you are dropping more than one the pipper should be placed in the middle of the string.  In my example, I wanted to hit the whole runway...so I did the math with the spacing, and put the pipper in the middle of the runway.

 

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

105 and MK82 work ok. 

CBU 97 does not (for me)

 

97 overshoot.trk

[tweet]

There are two possibilities, other than the potential for a bug/error introduced with the recent fix, that I can see. The most likely is that, unlike the -105/-103, these CBUs are purely ballistic and there is no correction for wind in CCRP (and possibly CCIP) in the sim. Windage is the pilot's responsibility. Release altitude and wind can have a significant effect on impact point in relation to aim point. Higher release altitudes and higher wind velocity will experience greater divergence than low altitude releases and low/no wind. The bomblets/pucks experience drift too. Basically, the longer the time between release and each individual bomblet/puck's impact, the greater the divergence and dispersion.

The second possibility is how CCRP is implemented in the game. I can only offer a WAG since what I know about the workings of the sim is a close approximation of zero. I've read that radar ranging is not implemented in CCRP and, possibly, CCIP. Without radar ranging to refine the computed release solution, it is subject to positioning, velocity, and altitude errors in the data provided by Viper's INS/GPS. Add errors in how you fly the run in with wind and system errors and the weapon can be way off target.

Edited December 28, 2021 by tweet

[=52d= Skip]

Ran a few tests and I don´t see an accuracy issue, but I got the impression that ED reduced the footprint of the Submunitions.

The Test Setup:
- DCS 2.7.9.17830 Open Beta
- Default DCS Day, no Wind, etc
- Airstart
- Level CCRP delivery, 450kts @ 6000ft MSL
- 2xCBU-97, default setting

Of 6 tests 50% did bracket the Target, 50% destroyed 2 Tanks after the Target. In all Tests the Target below the SP was destroyed.
Looking in SloMo you can see the Canister opening pretty much on top of the WP, dispersing the Bomblets in a nice line along the Flightpath.

 

 

CAU_20_97_VLD_001.trk CAU_97_TST.miz

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Does the CBU97 still require a super steep dive in order to avoid the delay cue? I could only drop CBU97s in CCRP or in CCIP with the delay cue. It was mostly impossible to do the latter without the delay cue.  

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

@=52d= Skip

6000 feet you're almost right on top of the target. 
You might as well walk over there and deliver them in a wheel barrow then.

At such low altitude and such a huge spread of targets it's basically impossible to miss ?

Try 20.000 ft, no wind. 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[Dannyvandelft]

Happened to me too last night. Had the CCIP dead center on target, held pickle button till release, the CBU-97 exploded short of the target.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Marklar]

Has anyone found a proper way of dropping these bombs? They are so inconsistent. I did two passes trying to hit the same target. First time bombs overshot it by 100-150ft, on second pass they dropped right on target.

[=52d= Skip]

On 1/8/2022 at 6:57 PM, Marklar said:

Has anyone found a proper way of dropping these bombs? They are so inconsistent. I did two passes trying to hit the same target. First time bombs overshot it by 100-150ft, on second pass they dropped right on target.

Other than the Method used in my Video further up I could offer this:

 

In both cases I can hit the Target repeatedly.

[Marklar]

Dropping them with CCIP pipper inside the HUD was never a problem. They occur when you designate a target with pipper outside the HUD, usually in a shallow dive.

[Preendog]

+1

Level bomb at 2000', drops long.

Loft at 5000', bomblets end up in a different postal code than the one aimed at. 

Dive with CCIP in HUD: get hits, but the centroid of the bomblet pattern is still nowhere near where the CCIP was pointed. Sometimes short, sometimes long, depending on angle and release altitude. 

MK83s are fine. 

E. I understand that the INS will screw up the bombsight, so I used fresh airstart planes. 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Preendog

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all, 

we are still investigating this, it maybe related to some other reports we currently have open. 

thank you

[Marklar]

On 1/11/2022 at 6:58 PM, Preendog said:

centroid of the bomblet pattern is still nowhere near where the CCIP was pointed

CCIP is calculated for dispenser, not bomblets. When they deploy parachutes they do drift a lot with strong wind. I don’t think it was always the case but it’s how they work since October update. Turn off wind in mission editor and you will see a difference.

[Preendog]

Thx Marklar.  I did another test to try with wind, and I have no idea what to make of the results.

 

Attack Ticonderoga on Crimea with CBU97 from south to north.  Place pipper at center of ship waterline and hold pickle, flying perfectly straight afterward until release.  Note impact pattern.

 

Without wind it looks like the game is calculating only the canister ballistics, and the bomblets naturally fall shorter than that, but it's reasonable.  With wind it is totally messed up, like a mile away, and I don't know why.  The crosswind effect is present as expected (and it matches the left arrow direction in the mission editor), but there is also a massive southern error.  I wonder if anyone can reproduce.

 

e. again, fresh airstart planes and time compression for accuracy.

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Preendog

[Marklar]

In windy conditions I learned to aim off a target and make a guess how far bomblets will drift. It's good to have a smoke nearby to check where the wind is blowing.

See my video I recorded a few days ago. On the first run I placed the pipper in the centre and you can see how far bomblets drifted away. On the second run I aimed to the right of the targets and had much better results.

There was also a third run at 4m:40s where CCIP went bonkers. I placed the pipper, Solution Cue appeared on the HUD but it got stuck for some reason. It was not moving down as it suppose to. When this happens bombs always overshot a target. I cannot figure out why this is happening and what I am doing wrong. 

 

[Preendog]

Agreed, it normally works ok, but sometimes the release is extremely early or late.  I thought it might be related to the wind direction, so I attacked the Tico from multiple directions repeatedly.  

 

From most angles, the canister breaks just before the ship and the bomblets drift astern (ok).  But approaching from SSE or NW caused the canister to drop before or after the release cue reaches the VV.  I did the red and light blue approaches 5 times each.  Red approach always dropped far short.  Light blue approach always dropped when expected. 

After turning off wind, red and yellow approaches drop normally.

Altering the approach angle, or diving, however, completely changed the results (eg. moving red approach 10deg eastward makes the release normal).  Did 50 tries looking for a pattern, give up. 

For sure tho:

-Sometimes bomb will drop immediately on pickle press, ignoring delay period.
-Sometimes bomb will drop before VV reaches release cue.
-Sometimes bomb will drop long after release cue passes VV.
-Sometimes the sight will show one delay and solution, but after pickle hold, show a totally different delay and solution.
-It may or may not be related to wind being on, or wind direction relative to your heading.

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Preendog

[Deano87]

wow... that's some pretty in depth testing. Weird results for sure!

[Colonel Akir Nakesh]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread, but CBU105s seem to be falling short or dispensing almost immediately when popping up for a toss bomb run...sometimes. I can't seem to force it to do it 100% of the time, though.

Level bombing seems to be fine. Track file attached!cbushort.trk

[BIGNEWY]

On 1/16/2022 at 11:12 PM, Colonel Akir Nakesh said:

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread, but CBU105s seem to be falling short or dispensing almost immediately when popping up for a toss bomb run...sometimes. I can't seem to force it to do it 100% of the time, though.

Level bombing seems to be fine. Track file attached!cbushort.trk

Hi its a different issue, you are trying to toss the CBU 105

 

[BIGNEWY]

On 1/14/2022 at 1:11 AM, Preendog said:

Thx Marklar.  I did another test to try with wind, and I have no idea what to make of the results.

 

Attack Ticonderoga on Crimea with CBU97 from south to north.  Place pipper at center of ship waterline and hold pickle, flying perfectly straight afterward until release.  Note impact pattern.

 

Without wind it looks like the game is calculating only the canister ballistics, and the bomblets naturally fall shorter than that, but it's reasonable.  With wind it is totally messed up, like a mile away, and I don't know why.  The crosswind effect is present as expected (and it matches the left arrow direction in the mission editor), but there is also a massive southern error.  I wonder if anyone can reproduce.

 

e. again, fresh airstart planes and time compression for accuracy.

 

 

Please include the track replay of the failed attempt we can take a closer look. 

I have tested today with the CBU-97 and I am not seeing any issue myself. 

[Marklar]

9 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please include the track replay of the failed attempt we can take a closer look. 

Please see attached track file. I dropped 4 bombs, two hit the target, two overshot it by 2,000ft or more.

A 4K video footage from this test. The failed attempts at 1m15s and 2m25s.

 

f16bombs2.trk

[Hawk_UK]

Yep I'm having the very same problem.... this also happens with the CCIP, the bombs dropping way short of indicated aiming reticule indicator every time.

This has only started happening for me since the last update. to DCS and the F-16.

Also an issue with the TGP and Calibration of the Mavs. TGP is freezing up, WPN Lock won't lock so can't calibrate Mavs

Edited August 28, 2022 by Hawk_UK