Disable autostart sequence in a mission

[cfrag]

13 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Perhaps it will draw away 90% of DCS players who can then have similar realism without all the difficulty.

I think this is the crux of the matter. To be blunt, it seems that you believe that you are special because you possess the rare "skill" to start the Hornet in DCS. It's not difficult, and you probably could train a chipmunk to do it. There is no skill involved.

People (me included) may want DCS's realism without the hassle of some skill-less busy-work that involves pushing buttons in the correct sequence while sitting on the tarmac. 5 Minutes of quality time wasted for most but die-hard enthusiasts. The great thing about DCS is that I can do a cold-start if I want to. Forcing me to do it would make DCS much less enjoyable.

11 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Again, I can hardly think of a better skill/realism/difficulty setting than forcing manual starts.

Look: if you need skill to press a few buttons in the correct sequence, you have other problems. If you find it difficult to press a few buttons you would not be typing on a keyboard. We all possess this skill. So don't kid yourself believing that a DCS start-up sequence has anything to do with skill.

Enforcing manual/cold starts serves one purpose (and that can be a valid purpose): to filter people from your server who don't share an obsession with procedural matters, and to include all those who think they are special because they can remember a trivial sequence of button presses. So it's a matter of player preference really; difficulty, skill or realism do not enter the picture. 

[Mars Exulte]

17 hours ago, Zeagle said:

In a properly designed multiplayer scenario, there won't be any hawking around the airfield looking for an easy kill. Unless maybe in a parachute.

Yeah, most servers gloss over that one.

14 hours ago, Exorcet said:

Starting the plane has literally nothing to do with skill though.

Also true. If you can do it with a macro, it's by definition not very skill intensive. At best it represents familiarity with tertiary systems.

[SharpeXB]

6 hours ago, cfrag said:

It's not difficult, and you probably could train a chipmunk to do it. There is no skill involved.

Well then requiring it on the server shouldn’t be problem. 

6 hours ago, cfrag said:

5 Minutes of quality time wasted for most but die-hard enthusiasts.

Well if you want to get rolling faster, do the start manually as most people can do that faster/better than the script.

[SharpeXB]

6 hours ago, cfrag said:

Enforcing manual/cold starts serves one purpose (and that can be a valid purpose): to filter people from your server who don't share an obsession with procedural matters

It also keeps away the reckless attention deficit hyperactive players who blast down the taxiways. Go check out a hot start sever and see. Cold starts result in a much better gameplay style. 

6 hours ago, cfrag said:

it seems that you believe that you are special because you possess the rare "skill" to start the Hornet in DCS

For the record I can start all the modules I own. And yeah it looks like that does make me special since aparently I’m the only one who does this. 

[cfrag]

10 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Well then requiring it on the server shouldn’t be problem. 

Which word in "skill-less busy-work" didn't you understand?

6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

For the record I can start all the modules I own

Nobody doubts that. It's just that not everyone enjoys doing it as much as you seemingly do.

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

4 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Which word in "skill-less busy-work" didn't you understand?

Nobody doubts that. It's just that not everyone enjoys doing it as much as you seemingly do.

Your missing the point cfrag. He feels like it’s a good idea and he has a right to tell others how to play.  
In order to guarantee his freedom, others need to change their way’s, thats what freedom is all about. Asking him to create his own server with the hundreds of others screaming for auto start banning, or joining one that exists is a violation of those freedoms.  
I think if the option can be created, perfect, can’t hurt.  But asking him to join one of those servers crosses the line….

 

 

[Exorcet]

28 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

For the record I can start all the modules I own. And yeah it looks like that does make me special since aparently I’m the only one who does this. 

Reading that really makes it seem like you just ignore things that don't conform to your point of view.

29 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

It also keeps away the reckless attention deficit hyperactive players who blast down the taxiways. Go check out a hot start sever and see. Cold starts result in a much better gameplay style.

I've seen a much more direct method with less side effects, which is to forbid taxi takeoffs and remove offenders. Using cold starts to enforce proper airport behavior is like turning off the lights to reduce the water bill. They don't really have anything to do with each other.

[SharpeXB]

40 minutes ago, Mr. Big.Biggs said:

He feels like it’s a good idea and he has a right to tell others how to play.

No I just happen to agree with the OP

+1 from me…

Edited September 19, 2022 by SharpeXB

[falcon_120]

Just my 2 cents.

I'm a family dad with an intensive work. If lucky I will have 25 min of play during weeks and maybe 2 hours on weekends... if lucky.

The little time I have nowadays won't let me memorize startup procedure of new planes, the only ones I know how to start manually are the F18/F16/A10c/Av8b

With that situation im all but helpful that the autostart option exist to let me play new modules for which I cannot keep up. I like realism, just I don't have the time right now to properly enjoy it, and I enjoy more flying that cold starting a plane, if a server force me to autostart a plane I cannot right now I simply won't join.


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[Mr. Big.Biggs]

26 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

No I just happen to agree with the OP

+1 from me…

 

No, the OP wants it as an option for the mission developer or server admin. You on the other hand want it for everyone because you feel like it will keep out the poor riffraff style of play across the board that you disagree with. 
Big difference 

[SharpeXB]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Big.Biggs said:

No, the OP wants it as an option for the mission developer or server admin. You on the other hand want it for everyone because you feel like it will keep out the poor riffraff style of play across the board that you disagree with. 
Big difference 

The OP asked for it because it affects the “gameplay style” —> keeping out the riffraf. Encourages realistic behavior etc. I agree. That’s part of the same equation. And it’s only an option. If you like riffraff I’m sure there can be a sever for that too. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by SharpeXB

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

The OP asked for it because it affects the “gameplay style” —> keeping out the riffraf. Encourages realistic behavior etc. I agree. That’s part of the same equation. And it’s only an option. If you like riffraff I’m sure there can be a sever for that too. 

 

There are

[HoBGoBLiNzx3]

On 9/19/2022 at 7:08 AM, SharpeXB said:

The OP asked for it because it affects the “gameplay style” —> keeping out the riffraf. Encourages realistic behavior etc. I agree. That’s part of the same equation. And it’s only an option. If you like riffraff I’m sure there can be a sever for that too. 

 

You keep equating auto start with riffraf. Why is it that you think this? Most taxi take offs happen in PVP servers with hot start. They don't even set their own aircraft up before departure.  They are using hot starts, not auto starts... it would be counter intuitive to think this way, or use it as an example for your campaign to control it sever wide. You aren't going to win over anyone in your quest by being disingenuous. 

I personally wouldn't mind if it was an option. Same as view restriction and loadout restrictions. However, just know that the difference is getting people flying... if  you stand in the way of that, there could be detrimental consequences. Especially if the admins aren't in touch with it's player bases... A lot of people fly in groups of friends, or online discord channels, etc, etc. They won't want to stop flying with friends because some prick wanted other people to do a few other clicks before having to start their mission.. 

I personally auto start a few.. and a few I don't. 

Example.. Going through the start up procedure for the F-14 without autostart is a pain in the ass because most of it is done in the RIO seat. If you want realism. Switching seats isn't realistic either... And telling jester to do his job is a long winded waste of time, to do it all over again if you get shot down... 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, HoBGoBLiNzx3 said:

I personally wouldn't mind if it was an option. Same as view restriction and loadout restrictions.

Sure, it would just be a gameplay style option same as other difficulty settings. People could choose it or not. 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, HoBGoBLiNzx3 said:

However, just know that the difference is getting people flying... if  you stand in the way of that, there could be detrimental consequences.

This isn’t an insurmountable obstacle. Anyone can learn to start an aircraft. It takes about 3 minutes in the game.

Edited September 20, 2022 by SharpeXB

[HoBGoBLiNzx3]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

This isn’t an insurmountable obstacle. Anyone can learn to start an aircraft. It takes about 3 minutes in the game.

 

It isn't starting the engines that stop people from going through it manually, it's the daunting tasks of aligning HMD's, setting INS, doing bit testing, all the small nuances that you'd prefer not to do if you die 2 mins into a flight... lol and like I said.. multi seat aircraft..like the F-14. That is one particular aircraft I always auto start because of that specific reason. I manually start all the other ones though. I think it should just be part of a overall Full Sim options for the server. Not a specific checkbox. So MP servers can run it how they are.. or you can run sim settings and you don't get any assistance at all, map, atc text, awacs text, chat is disabled, F-10 map all markers are off. Etc. 

[falcon_120]

This isn’t an insurmountable obstacle. Anyone can learn to start an aircraft. It takes about 3 minutes in the game.

In which world does someone learn to cold start a new aircraft in 3 min?
Are you a MIT/Harvard student? :/

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[draconus]

13 hours ago, HoBGoBLiNzx3 said:

Going through the start up procedure for the F-14 without autostart is a pain in the ass because most of it is done in the RIO seat. If you want realism. Switching seats isn't realistic either... And telling jester to do his job is a long winded waste of time...

I cannot agree here at all. You just do your job at front seat and Jester start doing his job as soon as engines are started. No talking needed at any point. He just confirms "Ready to taxi" after he's done.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, falcon_120 said:

In which world does someone learn to cold start a new aircraft in 3 min?
Are you a MIT/Harvard student?

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The process in the game takes three minutes to accomplish. Not learning it. I figure that should be obvious. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by SharpeXB

[falcon_120]

The process in the game takes three minutes to accomplish. Not learning it. I figure that should be obvious. 

Ok

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[HoBGoBLiNzx3]

14 hours ago, draconus said:

I cannot agree here at all. You just do your job at front seat and Jester start doing his job as soon as engines are started. No talking needed at any point. He just confirms "Ready to taxi" after he's done.

That's exactly my point...... If you want to do entire start up procedure you gottas switch seats and do jesters job... So it's practically auto start as it is.. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by HoBGoBLiNzx3

[draconus]

4 hours ago, HoBGoBLiNzx3 said:

That's exactly my point...... If you want to do entire start up procedure you gottas switch seats and do jesters job... So it's practically auto start as it is.. 

No, you don't need to switch seats and do any of Jester's job, that's my point.

[cfrag]

I believe that @HoBGoBLiNzx3 is saying that if a part of your startup procedure is automated (i.e. done by Jester), you might as well go the full Monty.  

My stance on this issue (as mission author and server admin) is

• You can use cold-start as a game element to enforce a multi-minute down-time for the pilot, which may prevent some reckless behavior
• Trying prevent auto-start programmatically (as a server option) is futile since it can be easily circumvented with existing macro programs
• If a server admin feels they can tell me that I must not use auto-start I would avoid that server because I deem that as invasive micromanagement in my play style. But that is my personal opinion and is as relevant and important as anyone else's 
• Using auto-start vs hand-starting is a personal preference that has little to do with how players conduct themselves after the start-up procedure is done
• Most Importantly: this thread has run on for far too long, and I realize that I'm one of worst offenders here, so I'll just step off this soap box and hang my head in shame

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by cfrag