What Power Supply for 4090?

[durka-durka]

Hey all. I bought my last PSU back in 2012 and it's served me well. It's a 910w system, but is NOT modular.  I'll be upgrading my 2080Super soon to a 4090.  Should I upgrade the PSU as well?  If so, what do you recommend?

[BitMaster]

Watch this first, and maybe the video linked from Jay

 

[Mars Exulte]

6 hours ago, durka-durka said:

is NOT modular

Not really relevant, tbh. That mostly means it doesn't have the cables hardwired into it. As long as you have enough of the required power cables free to supply the GPU what it needs, that's the part that matters.

In my own situation, having a 750w and a 3090, I debated a bit, and decided while the 750 should TECHNICALLY provide enough, it doesn't leave any headroom for overclocking and could be exceeded by boost, so I put a 1000w in instead (that I happened to have free access to). In your case, you've got a 910, so that's pretty damn close. Usually you won't ever need 850+ unless you're doing multiple GPUs or something really exotic clockwise. To just ''have a GPU and it work stock'' 900w should be sufficient.

[DishDoggie]

 

[Hiob]

I had always good experiences with BeQuiet PSUs. I always went with the second highest tier "straight power 11". Atm I'm rocking 1000w modular and it doesn't even spin up its fan when under load (at least not audible).

Quiet performance was always a top priority for me.

Regarding the original question: Calculate the highest powerdraw of your components under load (450W GPU + 100W CPU +50W System) and add 50% margin. In conclusion, I won't go under 1000W for a 4090. Remind you, that nominal powerdraw doesn't account for ripple and spikes.

And be careful when connecting your GPU. Read the manual carefully for which connector goes to which rail and the amount of power it can provide.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Hiob

[72Stu]

@durka-durkaI would recommend NOT buying a 4090.

 

Way overpriced, wait for reviews on mobos, RAM, PSU requirements etc. There are way too many reasons not to buy one, than to just grab the next tech stuff.

Up to you ofc, but the prices of the next gen stuff is insane, and not completely unexpected. Won't run DCS much faster too. 

[BitMaster]

This is not going to work properly with a 2012 PSU, we are Q4 of 2022.

There is no and never will be an adapter with the sensor cables and the 4090 will never run as intended. I would really wait and see.

Then, those PCIe cables, if there are enough first place, where not designed to all feed one device. the video was clear on that topic.

The PSU is 10 years old too, think twice before you fry both. Get one that has the proper new connector with SideBand Pins so it can talk to the GPU.

https://seasonic.com/news/post/sea-sonic-to-launch-new-vertex/

 

 

[durka-durka]

On 9/30/2022 at 9:38 AM, Hiob said:

I had always good experiences with BeQuiet PSUs. I always went with the second highest tier "straight power 11". Atm I'm rocking 1000w modular and it doesn't even spin up its fan when under load (at least not audible).

Quiet performance was always a top priority for me.

Regarding the original question: Calculate the highest powerdraw of your components under load (450W GPU + 100W CPU +50W System) and add 50% margin. In conclusion, I won't go under 1000W for a 4090. Remind you, that nominal powerdraw doesn't account for ripple and spikes.

And be careful when connecting your GPU. Read the manual carefully for which connector goes to which rail and the amount of power it can provide.

 

I appreciate the recommendation. I have a Bequiet box.  It's not as quiet as I wish, but that's probably my fan's fault.  I'll look into their PSU. 

On 9/30/2022 at 9:49 AM, 72Stu said:

@durka-durkaI would recommend NOT buying a 4090.

 

Way overpriced, wait for reviews on mobos, RAM, PSU requirements etc. There are way too many reasons not to buy one, than to just grab the next tech stuff.

Up to you ofc, but the prices of the next gen stuff is insane, and not completely unexpected. Won't run DCS much faster too. 

I'll wait.  I'm just frustrated at the amount of work and visual sacrifice I have to put in with my 2080Super and Reverb G2.

[Dragon1-1]

Did you try OpenXR? I'm driving my G2 with a 1080Ti at damn near max settings. Most of VR performance issues are actually caused by SteamVR being a piece of crap.

[durka-durka]

40 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Did you try OpenXR? I'm driving my G2 with a 1080Ti at damn near max settings. Most of VR performance issues are actually caused by SteamVR being a piece of crap.

Yeah I've got OpenXR running. It's a lot smoother, but the biggest problem I have with it is the awful MSAA or whatever it's called (the jagged lines) just to get enough FPS to be comfortable.

[SkateZilla]

ATX3.0 1000w or be very specific about the 12V RAILS,

Reviewers have been blowing up PSUs using the new ATX3 Power Connectors

[BitMaster]

Let me bet 1 beer that this damn connector will see a Revision 

With such strict consumer protection laws in the US it's bound to cause legal issues sooner or later.

I hope before the first home goes up in flames 

[BitMaster]

Well, that specific PSU is one made for that so it does come with the 16+4-Pin cable, ATX 3.0 specs and all that. 

But listen, even then and ONLY then you will encounter the melted connectors.

Adapter cables top out at 450w and likely won't not melt away as the 600-660w one does.

 

The big deal is, that it can destroy the conn at any device involved.... 1300€ GPU, 300€ PSU,  neither one is cheap

[SkateZilla]

9 hours ago, AirMeister said:

It's not the connector (if you get an actual ATX 3.0 PSU). 

It's the "old gen" PSU's with the adapter cables that go from 6 pin to 16 pin that may cause problems. 
Unless i have my information wrong of course

I am reading here that for this 'old gen' psu to actually be able to deliver the full 600 watt through this adapter cable, you need a specific 1200 watt PSU. 

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/corsair-now-offers-12vhpwr-connector-modular-cable-capable-of-delivering-up-to-600w.html

Even if that PSU can in theory deliver that power through that one port, it's not really built for it like the new gen PSU's are i guess. 

 

The 16-Pin Connector itself is the problem, the Adapter creates a 2nd one.

for the Amount of power going through the small pins, it's a choke point, and causes heating. which leads to the Connector blowouts.
Which is why they have a 30 connection like span.

Then you have the Adapter, which doesnt communicate with the PSU, so the GPU can try and draw all 500w from a single rail, and blow out your PSU.

The ATX3.0 Connector has 4 pins for data between device and GPU to tell it what it needs, the max it can draw, etc, and the PSU communicates back it's max output per rail, and the GPU tunes to that, etc. using the adapter, you basically allow the GPU to run full tilt and pull more than the PSU is rated for.

Edited October 4, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Johnny Dioxin]

This doesn't sound good. I was hoping to get a 4080/16 for my current rig (PSU is a Corsair RM850x) but it looks like not - and as I only had it 2 years I'm not prepared to buy a new one.

 

Looks like I'll be waiting for the 5000 series, then

 

 

[freehand]

Nivida cleared up all the power and cable rumors 6 days ago.

  

Edited October 4, 2022 by freehand

[Johnny Dioxin]

This made interesting reading:

 

https://www.techradar.com/news/nvidia-explains-what-you-need-to-know-about-rtx-4000-gpu-power-demands

Edited October 4, 2022 by Johnny Dioxin
spellling

[Art-J]

^ Sounds a bit like a damage control on NV part, but hopefully they're right. I'd wait, however, on reports from more adventurous users who will get their hands on new cards first.

[Johnny Dioxin]

Thanks for that - I had some optimism after reading the page I linked to, but still wasn't 100%.

I'll be getting a 4080/16 anyway - if the PSU is okay, that's great. In the meantime I realised there may be a problem with my SATA ports, though. Currently my 2080Ti goes over two ports - but they are set parallel to the board, with this in mind, I suspect. However the remaining 4 are all perpendicular to the board, and two of them are under where the 3-slot wide 4080 would go.

I may be able to get round that with a PCIe SATA controller board, but I'll also see which card configurations are available - they probably won't all be the same dimensions, depending on manufacturer.

On the other hand I may just opt for a new bundle. Have to wait and see.

 

edit - the SATA ports concerned are boxed yellow...

Edited October 8, 2022 by Johnny Dioxin

[BitMaster]

Depending on your case, you could opt for an PCIe-v4 riser cable and mount the GPU vertically in the case and avoid the problem at all. 

[Mars Exulte]

10 hours ago, Johnny Dioxin said:

Thanks for that - I had some optimism after reading the page I linked to, but still wasn't 100%.

I'll be getting a 4080/16 anyway - if the PSU is okay, that's great. In the meantime I realised there may be a problem with my SATA ports, though. Currently my 2080Ti goes over two ports - but they are set parallel to the board, with this in mind, I suspect. However the remaining 4 are all perpendicular to the board, and two of them are under where the 3-slot wide 4080 would go.

I may be able to get round that with a PCIe SATA controller board, but I'll also see which card configurations are available - they probably won't all be the same dimensions, depending on manufacturer.

On the other hand I may just opt for a new bundle. Have to wait and see.

 

edit - the SATA ports concerned are boxed yellow...

 

Can't you just use a 90' cable? I have done stuff like that with gpus that overhung them before. It's good to have a couple of them around for situations like that.

[schmiefel]

9 hours ago, BitMaster said:

Depending on your case, you could opt for an PCIe-v4 riser cable and mount the GPU vertically in the case and avoid the problem at all. 

With that there are several things to check:

• does the case support mounting of a 3.5 slot GPU design via riser slot (most cases just support up to 2.5 slot wide) and will there be enough space left for the air coolers of the card to pull enough fresh air - else you'll have to think about a watercooled design and with this a 4090 wouldn't take much more room than a 3090ti (the PCB of the 4090 has rather the same size)  and you could stay within the MB slot as well
• how much bandwith can the riser cable deliver - the new GPUs clock very high and to get enough data to make use of it the PCI-port has to deliver this through the riser extension cable over a much longer distance than on the mainboard where the top most slot is right beneath the CPU (and that will demand for very well designed riser solutions what has its price, too)
• can the case at all handle all the hot air produced by at least up to 450W (german online magazine Computerbase did some tests with just a 3090ti and out of 3 top brand cases just one from Fractal was really suitable to get all the heat out of the case without screaming high running system fans)

In the end, all those questions lead me to the conclusion to wait and see what happens under real live conditions and the reports from independent qualified testers that I trust much more than the marketing department of NV - and to wait for a significant price drop at least in the € zone

[SkateZilla]

12 hours ago, Johnny Dioxin said:

Thanks for that - I had some optimism after reading the page I linked to, but still wasn't 100%.

I'll be getting a 4080/16 anyway - if the PSU is okay, that's great. In the meantime I realised there may be a problem with my SATA ports, though. Currently my 2080Ti goes over two ports - but they are set parallel to the board, with this in mind, I suspect. However the remaining 4 are all perpendicular to the board, and two of them are under where the 3-slot wide 4080 would go.

I may be able to get round that with a PCIe SATA controller board, but I'll also see which card configurations are available - they probably won't all be the same dimensions, depending on manufacturer.

On the other hand I may just opt for a new bundle. Have to wait and see.

 

edit - the SATA ports concerned are boxed yellow...

 

 

SATA Cables w/ the 90° Connector should fit the Marked connectors.

Dunno why board makers vary on this, having all connectors face off the back, top or bottom of the board makes it easier to cable manage, as well as clearance concerns.

[Johnny Dioxin]

Almost all of my SATA cables are the type that are straight one end and 90° the other. Just wasn't sure there would be enough space, anyway.

[BitMaster]

Sure,

all that applies. In the end I think cooling it with a waterblock might be the best solution of them all.

Looking at that air-cooler monster, I doubt a card made by Nvidia WITH a waterblock would cost more, I think it's cheaper to produce a waterblock than such a massive aircooler.