2.8 update has 20 % fps loss on pimax8kx and 15 fps loss on Varjo Aero (RTX 4090)

[zildac]

I can't concur with that...sorry -20 average

[Obic]

Everyone Edit your post & update this 

What Headset - Hardware - Open Xr or Steam Vr or Oculus.
ASW/Retroprojection on or off, fps figure & latency.

At least we will be able to narrow it down from there

[Supmua]

Updated and did a quick test on a bunch of maps.  On average both my CPU and GPU frametimes increase by 2ms, this is with VR preset so if you use higher settings the results may be worse.  The lighting looks different so I'm going to have to redo my Reshade settings also.  My testing also assumed that there's no different between the current NVIDIA driver and the previous one (my old data was obtained using the previous NVIDIA driver).

EDIT: performance differences appear vary among missions also.  I typically fly with VR preset plus High texture, Low shadows, High visibility, MSSAx2, ANS filtering 4x.  With these settings the performance degradation isn't drastic.  No longer am I getting 90 fps in free flights but it is still in 80s in those low requirement areas.  Flat terrain shadows now look more like normal shadows with soft edges (no shadow fluttering which is nice).  Ground objects appears more sharp grainy and shimmer like it underwent a sharpening filter, especially Persian Gulf, had to reduce my Reshade sharpening setting to accommodate.  Still need to stress test with high requirement aircraft (Apache) and taxing maps such as Mariana but need to catch up with other games lol.

After fudging around with the settings, I'm back up to 90 fps in some free flights especially the Harrier.  Had to reduce visibility to medium and lower the horizontal pixels to 3022 per screen.  If you play at high preset though, the performance taxing would be worse.  This might explain why people who render at lower resolution and settings didn't see much performance impact.  Typical Varjo setting at Very High on the headset is around 3600 pixels per screen without changing things in SteamVR, and that's a significant load.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Supmua

[ignition22]

AMD 5600 cpu, AMD 6800 gpu, 32gb ram, Reverb G2 100% res with OpenXR + FSR. So decent but not super high spec pc.

Didn't measure but no noticeable degradation in VR performance, flying around PG in a simple mission with Apache is nice and smooth

[WipeUout]

Seems that part of the performance decrease comes from the shadows processing.  Going from flat to high, I used to drop by about 2 FPS in my test track and now it is a 4 FPS drop.

Shadows is one of those setting that is both CPU and GPU demanding.  I will switch it off for now as no shadows is a 6+ FPS gain.

Edited October 29, 2022 by WipeUout
Typo

[zildac]

So, some more testing this morning. Shadows to Flat, OFF or Default make zero difference to me. I’ve gone from 86FPS when looking straight out through the HUD in Hornet ready on the ramp Caucasus to 60 ish. No MODS other than Open composite and OXRTK. No other in game settings changed. And it is ALL CPU frametime. My CPU FT pre 2.8 in the same scenario was 9, it's now 16. Something is very, very wrong.

Specs are in my sig.

 

I posted this in the patch notes discussion thread too, just leaving it here for info.

 

Just rolling back to 2.7 to make sure I’m not losing my mind

And all back to normal....

Edited October 29, 2022 by zildac

[obious]

41 minutes ago, zildac said:

 

I posted this in the patch notes discussion thread too, just leaving it here for info.

 

Just rolling back to 2.7 to make sure I’m not losing my mind

And all back to normal....

 

Just downloading 2.8 now to do my own tests and if I get the same results as everyone else, I'll have to revert. Can I ask how I do that exactly?

Thanks! 

[zildac]

The feedback seems mixed, I however took a huge CPUFT and GPUFT hit.

 

To rollback (assuming you want the latest OB before 2.8)

Go into your DCS world bin folder and run:

 

YOURDRIVEHERE:\DCS World\bin>dcs_updater update 2.7.18.30765@openbeta

Edited October 29, 2022 by zildac

[Moxica]

Did not measure, but a VERY disappointing drop in framerate on Oculus Quest 2; ah64 on my (former) smooth test mission, Caucasus.
My new, brake-my-bank-account PC rig has held up so far, except for Marianas. But that mission was cream!
I'm going to bed and now to have a taste of depression, because this runs like my old PC.    
 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Moxica

[obious]

26 minutes ago, zildac said:

The feedback seems mixed, I however took a huge CPUFT and GPUFT hit.

 

To rollback (assuming you want the latest OB before 2.8)

Go into your DCS world bin folder and run:

 

YOURDRIVEHERE:\DCS World\bin>dcs_updater update 2.7.18.30765@openbeta

 

thanks.

I just did a bit of test and didn't notice anything initially on a simple test Suppercarrier PG mission I created a little while ago (see below, 2.7 on the left, 2.8 on the right; notice the increase in GPU mem and system RAM).

I also fired up a NTTR F-14 BFM mission I also created and I defo noticed a perf decrease there. Prior I was getting ~7ms GPU frame time @ 90fps, now I'm seeing ~8.5ms and the clouds look all jaggy as hell (running them on Ultra)

F-14A_IA_NTTR_Dogfight_F-14_x4.miz SoH FA-18C Free Flight On Deck.miz

Edited October 29, 2022 by obious
Attached missions

[Moxica]

Also: Clouds now look like something from Microprose anno 1982, and JTAC does not answer the call. So far it looks like pure sabotage.

[nachomaga]

I can confirm, a 10-15 fps drop with 3090 and Reverb G2, and OpenComposite. Same settings than 2.7.

I get almost same performance as 2.7 going from MSAA X4 to X2 and terrain shadows to Flat.

I will try with SteamVR, but I don’t espect to get better results.

Edited October 29, 2022 by nachomaga

[Supmua]

Just did Apache Hot Start Mariana.  The fps was actually better around the airport which puzzled me.  So I flew toward the Carrier that is slightly N of the runway (this is the usual culprit for fps drop), and it was no longer there but you can still see parked planes floating in the air in the spot where the CV normally was.  At this spot normally my CPU FT would be around 30ms but it was like 22-23ms which is a lot nicer.

So I opened up the mission in the editor and it appeared that they changed the CV object to a regular boat (still named CVN70, btw)--very sneaky, lol, might as well delete all those floating planes too huh.

Anyway, I don't have anything else to complain on this mission.  Averaging 56 fps, which is decent.  Of course this was with reduced pixel rendering to 3022 horizontal per screen and visibility to medium.  At this res it's not crisp like typical image quality that I'm used to but still plenty sharp and tiny texts are all legible.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Supmua

[MoleUK]

Didn't get much time in yet, but immediately noticed a decrease in FPS unfortunately. I noticed the simulation ms was much higher than it used to be at low/medium altitude. My FPS was much more fluid though, rather than cratering from 60 to 40 it was staying fluid inbetween instead of locking at 40 which felt a lot better.

This was all in MP on a fairly busy server for context.

Edited October 29, 2022 by MoleUK

[Moxica]

This Caucasus training mission never had any performance issues. Now it looks looks this the first 20 secs or so: No textures, and ground is all water.

 

[zildac]

Is everyone who has the issue with lost fps using OpenComposite?

I can confirm, a 10-15 fps drop with 3090 and Reverb G2, and OpenComposite. Same settings than 2.7.
I get almost same performance as 2.7 going from MSAA X4 to X2 and terrain shadows to Flat.
I will try with SteamVR, but I don’t espect to get better results.

Have you tried using Steamvr and losing OpenComposite just to test? I'm away from my machine at the moment but as the issue doesn't seem to affect everyone perhaps OC issues a factor?

[nachomaga]

17 minutes ago, zildac said:

Is everyone who has the issue with lost fps using OpenComposite?

Have you tried using Steamvr and losing OpenComposite just to test? I'm away from my machine at the moment but as the issue doesn't seem to affect everyone perhaps OC issues a factor?

Not yet, I will do in two hours or so. I’ll post the results.

[zildac]

Not yet, I will do in two hours or so. I’ll post the results.

Great, thanks

[darkman222]

I am using both. OpenVr / OpenComposite for the Varjo Aero and the regular DCS OB version for the Pimax 8kX. Fps loss on both.

[zildac]

Going to try SteamVR now just to check the results my end.

SVR same issue...

[Maksim Savelev]

3 часа назад, Moxica сказал:

Did not measure, but a VERY disappointing drop in framerate on Oculus Quest 2; ah64 on my (former) smooth test mission, Caucasus.
My new, brake-my-bank-account PC rig has held up so far, except for Marianas. But that mission was cream!
I'm going to bed and now to have a taste of depression, because this runs like my old PC.    
 

 

The problem is, that my RTX4090 runs worse than my old PC. But the day before the update 2.8 I was blessed to enjoy smooth VR experience in DCS like never before

As I found out the major if not the main reason for that is the Aircraft's own shadow casting over underlying surfaces. If A/C stands on the grass and you are trying to look around it with F2 view, it produces a lot of stators if this shadow is even set to low

Should we be concerned that developers not using VR by themselves? I think its kinda already time for it? since there are lot of people using it

Edited October 29, 2022 by Maksim Savelev

[MoleUK]

1 hour ago, zildac said:

Is everyone who has the issue with lost fps using OpenComposite?

Have you tried using Steamvr and losing OpenComposite just to test? I'm away from my machine at the moment but as the issue doesn't seem to affect everyone perhaps OC issues a factor?

Using the oculus runtime here.

If I switch shadows from medium to off I can get back some of the FPS loss. But it's not consistent, something is spiking CPU. Simulation time goes to around 10ms+ and the FPS drops.

[WipeUout]

I reverted to Stable 2.7.18...  Very disappointing to say the least.

Dear ED, please share with the community what is going on.  I was expecting VR improvements as stated in GS`s great preview of 2.8 on YouTube ( https://youtu.be/GVlRcYaQMZ4) but instead we got serious dip in FPS.

It would be much easier to swallow if you shared some of the challenges/problems/issues you faced before posting the update.  In keeping and fostering collaboration, sharing information and transparency will only help.  When information is missing, people make it up and most of the time it will be negative.  Please help us understand.   

 

[darkman222]

And even if its not VR. The frame drop from 2.7 to 2.8 is even in 2D mode.

I tried it on my other PC. ( weaker one with "only" a RTX 2070 instead for 2D playing)

2.7 runs in 2D mode with identical settings at 91-108 fps

2.8 runs in 2D with identical settings at 77 fps.

That would resemble the 20 fps drop in VR too. 20 fps is a lot, which causes to desync the VR headset. If you play in 2D mode you might not realize the drop at the first glance.

2.8

2.7

Although its "just" a 2070 in that PC the specs of it are decent too.

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by darkman222

[zildac]

And even if its not VR. The frame drop from 2.7 to 2.8 is even in 2D mode.
I tried it on my other PC. ( weaker one with "only" a RTX 2070 instead for 2D playing)
2.7 runs in 2D mode with identical settings at 91-108 fps
2.8 runs in 2D with identical settings at 77 fps.
That would resemble the 20 fps drop in VR too. 20 fps is a lot, which causes to desync the VR headset. If you play in 2D mode you might not realize the drop at the first glance.
2.8

2.7

Exactly. My loss is 25fps in VR . Frankly ridiculous and what is frustrating is this product goes out to closed bets testing, how can no-one have noticed the shadows are hosed even if no one in the closed group uses this witchcraft called VR and had huge fps drop. Perhaps it's time to reassess the value of the current closed beta process.