Why not the Caucasus with the new lighting model

[Hotdognz]

Im curios to know from ED why they picked the PG for the new lighting model roll out, surly it would have made more sense to roll this out the free and more used Caucasus map, the lighting model is awesome in PG and now makes playing on the Caucuses map a dark place to play in with clouds on.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Hotdognz

[Nealius]

Probably a business decision. There are five maps made directly by ED: Caucasus, NTTR, PG, Channel, and Marianas, in that order of release. Of those, the payware maps are NTTR, PG, and Channel. Channel is exclusively WW2 at the moment, leaving NTTR and PG where sales can be thought of as funding the development of things like new lighting that the majority of players are going to actually interact with. PG was and maybe still is a very popular map as well until Syria came out; I'd argue it sold more than NTTR ever did but that's speculation on my part. Ergo, logically PG makes the best test bed since it's payware (funding) with high popularity (more players to see and give feedback on it). 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Nealius

[GEIST]

I do wonder about that. You get all these awesome promo videos and showcases for planes etc and then you download dcs and load up a Caucasus mission and as new user probably wonder if you downloaded the wrong game… because you landed in 1992 graphics. The main issue I have with this though is that you can’t fly vfr and any ground attack is difficult because everything looks EXAXTLY the same… those 2 buildings and 1 tree scattered around the whole map so you can’t tell what’s what…. I don’t know. If I were in charge I’d get that map updated as prio #1… 

That being said, the new lighting model alone is probably a waste of time because this needs more than that.

Edited April 11, 2023 by GEIST

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, GEIST said:

I do wonder about that. You get all these awesome promo videos and showcases for planes etc and then you download dcs and load up a Caucasus mission and probably wonder if you downloaded the wrong game… because you landed in 1992 graphics. The main issue I have with this though is that you can’t fly vfr and any ground attack is difficult because everything looks EXAXTLY the same… those 2 buildings and 1 tree scattered around the whole map so you can’t tell what’s what…. I don’t know. If I were in charge I’d get that map updated as prio #1… 

Caucasus is our oldest terrain, over a decade in use, it has had many free updates over the years, however it is using older terrain methods. Eventually you have to move on from those and continue with the new terrains, which we have with the free Marianas terrain, and the future Marianas WWII terrain. 

thank you

[ironhard]

6 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Caucasus is our oldest terrain, over a decade in use, it has had many free updates over the years, however it is using older terrain methods. Eventually you have to move on from those and continue with the new terrains, which we have with the free Marianas terrain, and the future Marianas WWII terrain. 

thank you

Will it eventually be "updated" to the new tech, perhaps as a DLC?

 

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, ironhard said:

Will it eventually be "updated" to the new tech, perhaps as a DLC?

 

Not planned at this time. 

[ironhard]

I really like that map. Would definitely pay for it.

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, ironhard said:

I really like that map. Would definitely pay for it.

it is a great terrain for sure, years of fun and memories on it. 

[draconus]

11 hours ago, GEIST said:

...then you download dcs and load up a Caucasus mission and as new user probably wonder if you downloaded the wrong game… because you landed in 1992 graphics.

If you see '92 gfx here then you certainly downloaded the wrong game (or you don't know what you're talking about).

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by draconus

[GEIST]

Cheers for the reply. I get that it’s quite old and I just think it’s gotten to the point where the contrast between the modules and this map is quite big.

 

i hope there can be a replacement in the near future.

 

@draconus I didn’t mean to offend anyone. It’s been upgraded to the extend where it’s tolerable but yes I can see the old tech and low-res environment in that video. And the main issue with it is that the map doesn’t look like the real world. From a satellite view and airfield placement you can probably recognise where you are but otherwise it’s pretty random and not representative of a real world map.

That’s what’s possible these days.

DCS has the best flight model, the best clouds so I know the team can do it… maps are the last thing that needs to be brought to 2023.

[Hotdognz]

Even though the maps old tech it really would benefit from the new lighting, I mean its still the main map you get with DCS so its not dead, why not show it off at its best it can be.

[draconus]

2 hours ago, GEIST said:

DCS has the best flight model, the best clouds so I know the team can do it… maps are the last thing that needs to be brought to 2023.

Yes, it can be done but comes with a price - performance. There's only so much a modern PC can handle so DCS has its FM and battlefield simulation as priority.

Eye candy and realism is nice and always welcome but remember that compared to other GA sims and their maps the objects has to be destructible, have collision mesh and IR layers simulation, some maps also have season textures. The aircraft are able to land almost anywhere, the infantry has to be able to walk/run almost everywhere, the vehicles have to be able to drive almost everywhere, the ships have to be able to sail wherever the mission tell them, this is for both AI and player drivable vehicles, the details have to seen from the ground and grass up to the high altitude.

And as said it's not really fair to compare 2022 sim with oldest DCS map, which only got some tweaks and texture updates years ago. Set ultra details and run Marianas instead.

Edited April 12, 2023 by draconus

[GEIST]

I am with you there. I know a terrain in dcs has to deliver on a lot more than msfs e.g. and performance is always a consideration. But still I can see there is more possible these days and with the right amount of optimization I think it can look good and work well. The falklands map e.g is based on real drm data and textures - far from a perfect map but from high altitudes it looks pretty good.

Quote

And as said it's not really fair to compare 2022 sim with oldest DCS map,

Well, that's exactly what we're doing here right - in the caucasus map forum. It's an almost 2 decade old map which in my view should be retired and replaced by something up to date. If you go online 60% of all players are still playing on caucasus - it comes with the game and you can't expect everyone to have the same terrains.

So this means you're kind of stuck flying that really old map with all it's drawbacks as the marianas map hasn't really had much traction (it is mainly a ww2 / f18 map to be fair) and I think it's a bit of a shame.

But let's leave it there. It was already said there is nothing in the works atm so I guess it will be that way for some time. So maybe yeah adding those lights will be good after all.

Edited April 12, 2023 by GEIST

[Minsky]

7 hours ago, GEIST said:

t's an almost 2 decade old map which in my view should be retired and replaced by something up to date.

I disagree. This map loads fast and performs great on any PC. No need to replace it with something akin to Marianas where you can barely reach 60 fps on a high-end hardware struggling to render a tiny island.

[GEIST]

Fair enough, but I think it’s the case with any progress where you need to take a leap at some point. MT, DLSS and GPUs really getting quite fast I think it’s reasonable to take the next step. 20 years - I think nobody rushed anything.

Change can be scary but I have a feeling it’s the iPhone effect. Yeah a T9 phone works but nobody would ever go back these days.

Have a Caucasus 2.0 map that looks and feels like the real thing and you may never want to go back. And heck keep the original in the game but have the 2.0 version available. 

[Minsky]

27 minutes ago, GEIST said:

And heck keep the original in the game but have the 2.0 version available. 

Yep, that's why I highlighted the word "replace". I wouldn't mind Caucasus 2.0 with all the bells and whistles and poor performance that come bundled with every new DCS map. Just leave the old one alone 

[Minsky]

P.S. A low fidelity map has many use cases.

It can be used in missions where terrain's quality doesn't really matter (naval warfare or high altitude air combat).

It can be used in missions where you would rather have tons of units than a pretty picture.

It can be used as a testbed for making mods / missions / liveries. It loads blazingly fast, doesn't have memory leaks and doesn't eat up all your RAM and VRAM, so you can keep DCS running for hours alongside the other heavy apps.

[Fastbreak]

 The reason why from marketing point of view:

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Fastbreak

[Moxica]

I'd pay for an updated version.
-It is a welcome variation from "The three lasagnas".

[draconus]

2 minutes ago, Moxica said:

I'd pay for an updated version.
-It is a welcome variation from "The three lasagnas".

That joke is no longer funny when we have 8 maps plus 4 wip.

[Ramius007]

truth is, that especally winter textures around airfields, when thare is no grass, or anything look like nightmare, and to my supprise no mod adress this