Finer trim with modified default.lua possible?

[thornx]

Hi. I'm trying to get a finer Trim in the F-5. In default LUA there are the following lines:

 

{	pressed = iCommandPlaneTrimDown,			up = iCommandPlaneTrimStop,																									name = _('Elevator Trimmer Switch - PUSH(DESCEND)'),						category = {_('Stick'), _('Flight Control')}},
{	pressed = iCommandPlaneTrimUp,				up = iCommandPlaneTrimStop,																									name = _('Elevator Trimmer Switch - PULL(CLIMB)'),							category = {_('Stick'), _('Flight Control')}},

no value are passed. I added them myself but, as I guessed, they are ignored.

{	down = iCommandPlaneTrimUp,					up = iCommandPlaneTrimStop,	 value_down = 0.1, value_up = 0, name = _('Elevator Trimmer Up Fine J'),	category = _('FinerTrim')},
{	down = iCommandPlaneTrimDown,				up = iCommandPlaneTrimStop,	 value_down = 0.1, value_up = 0, name = _('Elevator Trimmer Down Fine J'),	category = _('FinerTrim')},

 

Is there a way to get a finer trim (without use of the joystick software)?

[LeCuvier]

commands like "iCommand..." do not take parameters.
I see that the trim commands are available in "clickabledata.lua". It might be possible to create custom commands. I may have time to try later.

[LeCuvier]

No luck. I could create new trim commands using information from "clickabledata.lua". But I could not slow the trim "speed" down.

[thornx]

On 12/15/2022 at 6:51 PM, LeCuvier said:

No luck. I could create new trim commands using information from "clickabledata.lua". But I could not slow the trim "speed" down.

Thank you for trying! Same on my side. The trim is the only big downside of the F-5

[Tusky]

Glad to see it's not only me having issues trimming the jet!

 

[VZ_342]

I've found the pitch trim = 5 "clicks" on the trim switch = 1 degree pitch (up or down). 

The tricky part with pitch trim (and roll) is that the horizontal stabs have a much slower response time than the trim input. If you press and hold the trim button, before you know it the plane will be pitching up/down dramatically. Each "click" can yield 200-400+ feet per minute climb/dive...but it might take 3-5 seconds to actually get there. Kinda freaky if you don't know why.

 

Just be patient when trying to trim, give the plane time to adjust.

 

[Tusky]

hace 1 hora, VZ_342 dijo:

The tricky part with pitch trim (and roll) is that the horizontal stabs have a much slower response time than the trim input..but it might take 3-5 seconds to actually get there. Kinda freaky if you don't know why.

Just be patient when trying to trim, give the plane time to adjust.

 

This explains those weird over overcorrections. Thank you! 

P.S. I will have a look at the external view as I actuate the trim switch on the ground to get an idea of it.

[Tusky]

I checked and trim is instantaneous on the stabilator; no delay.

What's delayed, in my opinion, is speed change at RPM variations: RPM variations produce speed changes after "a while" and you suffer abrupt pitch ups/downs due to sudden speed increases/decreases which you need to re-compensate. Also weird is the pitch up tendency right after a decrease in RPMs and the pitch down tendency after an increase of RPMs; a bit counterintuitive... 

I don't know if you share the same thoughts/experience.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Tusky

[VZ_342]

I was going by the behavior of the plane while trimming it. Pressing and holding the trim switch causes the trim gauge to go up, but there is very little perceptible movement of the nose, and suddenly the plane pitches up and past the horizon. Same with trimming down from level flight, press and hold and after smallish changes you find yourself nosing down steeply.

 

That's all by "feel" and "perception" though, I'll check closer when I'm in there again.

 

RPM changes vs speed changes are normal in jets, there is a delay while the turbine spools up.

 

[VZ_342]

I'm not seeing the pitch up with a throttle decrease...the airspeed goes down and the nose drops slowly. The reverse if the throttle is increased.

 

You are correct, the horizontal stab moves immediately (both the AOA gauge and stab move at about 3.5^/5 seconds) I think my mistake was trying to trim when I'm in a significant climb/dive, instead of using the actual control stick. "Trim in level flight", make minor adjustments as needed to maintain climb/dive rate.

[Tusky]

hace 3 horas, VZ_342 dijo:

I'm not seeing the pitch up with a throttle decrease...the airspeed goes down and the nose drops slowly. The reverse if the throttle is increased.

Bad choice of words on my side: it is an increase/decrease of altitude noticeable on the VVI that happens right when you change RPMs; it then settles and works "as advertised"  

Anyway, challenging plane and it requires continuous corrections. 

[thornx]

I'm not so sure about this. I used the smallest possible ticks on the trim. I can stabilize it "well" (+/-100 ft/min), but not exactly. Raising or lowering Engine Power did not help.

So I reprogrammed the Pulse width (smaller pulses with smaller repetition) on my Joystick, that fixed it.

 

Anyway the aerodynamic model is broken since the last patch. We did a aerobatic training yesterday. Loadout as always: ACM Sidewinder left, Smokepod right. 2 rolled over to the side of the smokepod and crashed on takeoff.

[VZ_342]

Quote

We did a aerobatic training yesterday. Loadout as always: ACM Sidewinder left, Smokepod right. 2 rolled over to the side of the smokepod and crashed on takeoff.

The only times I've lost control or nearly lost it was when I was taking off, and had forgot to turn on the pitch and roll dampers.

 

Just sayin'....

[thornx]

40 minutes ago, VZ_342 said:

The only times I've lost control or nearly lost it was when I was taking off, and had forgot to turn on the pitch and roll dampers.

Try it again after the last patch and use 1 ACM / 1 smoke pod

[Bucic]

20 minutes ago, thornx said:

Try it again after the last patch and use 1 ACM / 1 smoke pod

Have you reported the bug?

[VZ_342]

30 minutes ago, thornx said:

Try it again after the last patch and use 1 ACM / 1 smoke pod

Yes sir, hard roll to the right. Knowing it was to happen, I was ready with counter stick, and recovered....but throughout the flight still had hard right roll.

 

Swapped left/right load outs, got a hard left roll.

 

Both sides smoke pods, no roll. 

 

Maybe the smoke pod weight is goofy?

 

 

[VZ_342]

I weighed the smoke pods and the Aim-9, by adding them in the ME and checking the "Weapons" weight slot.

 

Smoke pod adds 441 lbs each 

Aim 9's vary between 187 lbs and 190 lbs.

That's 250 lbs difference. 

 

Edit 1: I also ran with 2x 500 lbs GP LD bombs on the two outer pylons amd dropped one at a time...immediate roll to the side dropped, and by dropping the other one the roll stabilized.

 

This is normal, I'd figure. Do the smoke pods really weigh 441 lbs??

 

Edit 2: Neat trivia I didn't know, that I found out when using the smoke pods: You activate the smoke pods by selecting them, and then using the "Jettison" button....but, if you have Sidewinders on those rails, it will yeet them off straight ahead. With fire coming out their backside. No lock-on necessary. Of course, they're not aimed or anything, so it's anybody's guess where they will land...but hey, now you can fire them off "ballistically."

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by VZ_342

[thornx]

12 hours ago, Bucic said:

Have you reported the bug?

Yes.

 

[Sarge55]

What does “yeet them off” mean?

Edited December 26, 2022 by Sarge55

[VZ_342]

"Yeet" means to throw something with force or careless abandon.

[Flappie]

On 12/25/2022 at 3:07 AM, VZ_342 said:

This is normal, I'd figure. Do the smoke pods really weigh 441 lbs??

No, they don't. They should weigh 203 lbs. A fix is in the making.