ATFLIR/Litening focus to a waypoint?

[Jyge]

I am somewhat more adapted to A-10C logic and the whole logic in F/A-18 comes across as a bit clunky, but it is propably just the matter of the time spent on that platform, plus I just got a good brush up with Baltic Dragon's A-10C Red Flag campaign - would love it for F/A-18 in same depth.

I am now playing the dominant fury campaign and I got a night mission where I just a bit too much with fifes and drums and got flapping over the target. I then decided to prepare myself a bit better for the next run. I watched couple of youtube videos again, but they did not actually address some of my grievances.

Firstly, I can edit the target waypoint to my given target coordinates in the HSI (with precise option) and mark it as TGT on the SA. So far so good, but how do I get the ATFLIR (or Litening) to focus on that point? I am missing the SPIs and SOIs from A-10C here.

The second question is concerning the HUD (or also the helmet targeting if I happened to have a day mission). I can not see any bloody cue on the HUD where that pod is pointing at? It just might be (after watching one YT clip) that I need to change the pod to "Scene" or even "Point" mode? (Is it the same for Litening)

I am hugely missing these features, as in A-10C you can start from your waypoint, pan around and see it on the ground. If you get lost, you can always return to the waypoint and start all over. I am pretty sure there has to be something similar in F/A-18 but it is simply escaping me as it is.

One further gimmick should be pointing to a mark point, but I would like to get the simple waypoint first.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Jyge

[Jyge]

Ok, I did some experimenting around. It is rather weird or ackward and at the same time, at least the youtube tutorial I looked is a bit dated.

The video said that you can not slew once in area or point track (or maybe that's litening - I experimented with ATFLIR)

You can designate a waypoint as SPI in that you assign it as a target. If you designate somewhere else you can return here by activating TGT again on SA...

It is, however, strange. If you don't depress the TDC once, you will return here when shuffling through area and point, which is a bit nerving (maybe). Otherwise you'll remain ground stabilized and the caret moves on HUD.  You need to make the markpoint over SA or HSI and select that in the SA, which might require some shuffling...

It is a bit nerving that I can not "hook" on markpoint on SA or anywhere, I need to use the up and down buttons and designate it as TGT.

Is there a less clunky way of doing this or a good tutorial more to the point. Like something from "Laobi", carnage with the pod in a minute and eff off.

[Dragon1-1]

It is a bit clunky, unfortunately. You need to designate the target, and then update the designation once you find what you're looking for. A-10 and Viper do it better, the Hornet has no concept of SPI, so you need to command a designation in order for it to work.

[Sacarino111]

30 minutes ago, Jyge said:

Ok, I did some experimenting around. It is rather weird or ackward and at the same time, at least the youtube tutorial I looked is a bit dated.

The video said that you can not slew once in area or point track (or maybe that's litening - I experimented with ATFLIR)

You can designate a waypoint as SPI in that you assign it as a target. If you designate somewhere else you can return here by activating TGT again on SA...

It is, however, strange. If you don't depress the TDC once, you will return here when shuffling through area and point, which is a bit nerving (maybe). Otherwise you'll remain ground stabilized and the caret moves on HUD.  You need to make the markpoint over SA or HSI and select that in the SA, which might require some shuffling...

It is a bit nerving that I can not "hook" on markpoint on SA or anywhere, I need to use the up and down buttons and designate it as TGT.

Is there a less clunky way of doing this or a good tutorial more to the point. Like something from "Laobi", carnage with the pod in a minute and eff off.

HI.

I may be a bit rusty but:

1   Once you have entered the coordinates (precise or not), in the HSI select that waypoint, press the "WPDSG" button (second one from the bottom, right hand side). This makes this location the "system target position" and all sensors should be pointing to that location. If the TGP is not looking at it, undesignate and press WPDSG again; the TGP should snap onto it.

2   When happy with the designation, press the MKx button (second one from the right, up row) so you "markpoint" that location in waypoints from 61 to 69(called "MK1" etc.) so you can easilly come back to it.

I also prefer the A10 system, but once used to it it works ok.

Saludos.

Saca111

[Hulkbust44]

7 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

It is a bit clunky, unfortunately. You need to designate the target, and then update the designation once you find what you're looking for. A-10 and Viper do it better, the Hornet has no concept of SPI, so you need to command a designation in order for it to work.

That's not true with the ATFLIR, never has been. SCENE and AUTO will always provide a designation. INR would be the only one that needs a command. Just like the others.

7 hours ago, Jyge said:

Ok, I did some experimenting around. It is rather weird or ackward and at the same time, at least the youtube tutorial I looked is a bit dated.

The video said that you can not slew once in area or point track (or maybe that's litening - I experimented with ATFLIR)

You can designate a waypoint as SPI in that you assign it as a target. If you designate somewhere else you can return here by activating TGT again on SA...

It is, however, strange. If you don't depress the TDC once, you will return here when shuffling through area and point, which is a bit nerving (maybe). Otherwise you'll remain ground stabilized and the caret moves on HUD.  You need to make the markpoint over SA or HSI and select that in the SA, which might require some shuffling...

It is a bit nerving that I can not "hook" on markpoint on SA or anywhere, I need to use the up and down buttons and designate it as TGT.

Is there a less clunky way of doing this or a good tutorial more to the point. Like something from "Laobi", carnage with the pod in a minute and eff off.

"It is a bit nerving that I can not "hook" on markpoint on SA or anywhere, I need to use the up and down buttons and designate it as TGT." Yep, that's not a Hornet design issue, it's an ED lack of implementation issue. Everything on the SA should be selectable with TDC deppress...

[Bunny Clark]

Yup, the Hog and the Hornet work quite differently. I actually prefer the Hornet, to be honest, the Hog will let you have weapons and sensors pointed in all different directions with a target point in another totally different location and you need to hit buttons to bring it all back together. Not so with the Hornet. It's what's called a "single line of sight" aircraft - all sensors should always be pointing to the same place all the time, and that place should always be the target. There are a few exceptions to this, and some people try to drive at those exceptions to make it work more like a Hog - don't do it, embrace the Hornet workflow. 

The fundamental concept of target workflow in the Hornet is that you have one Designated Target location, you can think of this like SPI, it's a similar idea. One sensor is always the Priority sensor providing Target Designation location, this is a bit like SOI in the Hog, but the difference is that the Priority sensor (identified by a diamond in the corner of the MFD) will by default be providing the Target Designation. There's generally no "Make SPI" command. If you're slewing around the FLIR pod in a ground stabilized mode, you are moving the Target location. 

There's no indication in the HUD/HMD for where the FLIR pod is pointing because there doesn't really need to be. Nearly all of the time, the FLIR is pointing at the Target, and there is a Target indication in the HUD/HMD. 

If you want to start looking for a target around a waypoint, select that waypoint on the HSI or SA page, and hit the Waypoint Designate (WPDSG) button. This will immediately designate the waypoint location as your Target and slew all weapons and sensors to it. The A/G radar will point to it, the FLIR will point to it, you'll have a target diamond, range, and a steering cue in your HUD and HMD, uncaged Mavericks will slew to it, and JDAMs in TOO will have the target point uploaded to them. If you want to look around the area with the FLIR make the FLIR page Priority, select Scene mode with SCS, and start slewing around. As you do, all other sensors and weapons will follow the FLIR pod. When the FLIR is pointing at your target, turn in and engage. No need to hit any additional buttons, where you're pointing is your target. If you want to return to the waypoint, move to a different waypoint, or markpoint: select it on the SA or HSI page and designate it again.

To designate a target with the HUD or HMD the process is very similar. Set the HUD to Priority with SCS Up, point the dot in the center of the reticle at the target, and depress the TDC Designate button. No need to differentiate between the HUD and HMD, the Hornet is smart enough to figure it out on its own - if you're looking at the HUD it'll use the HUD, if you look away from the HUD it'll use the HMD. Once designated you can keep slewing it around from the HUD/HMD, or make the FLIR priority and take over marking the Target location from there. 

The Hog is a bit of a ponderous aircraft. The Hornet is a strike fighter, it's designed to quickly acquire one target, attack that target as rapidly as possible, and GTFO. 

[rob10]

Will written description Bunny Clark!

[Hulkbust44]

12 hours ago, Bunny Clark said:

 

There's no indication in the HUD/HMD for where the FLIR pod is pointing because there doesn't really need to be. 

There's no FLIR FOV on the HMD as ED hasn't added it yet...

[DukeAngus]

i also use the hit the Waypoint Designate (WPDSG) button to fly to waypoints when i am in an unfamiliar area or in bad weather or at night.   i  can see the waypoint easier with the hud and hmd.

the easiest way for me to find targets on the move is using the the surface radar in GMT mode. when you have a brick you can press Sensor Control Switch right when the cursor is over the brick and it will lock on to the moving target and point the tgp at it. I then use the tgp to find exactly the spot you need to aim at.

i use the TGP on the bottom mfd display the Advanced Multipurpose Color Display (AMPCD), i find it gives me a picture that i can easily use.

to infinity and beyond!

[BuzzU]

Speaking of the pods. The ATFLIR should be the only pod that should be used on the boat. The Litening can't take the beating of carrier landings.

Is this modeled in DCS?

[Bunny Clark]

On 1/4/2023 at 6:36 PM, DukeAngus said:

i use the TGP on the bottom mfd display the Advanced Multipurpose Color Display (AMPCD), i find it gives me a picture that i can easily use.

Technically, that's unrealistic. The AMPCD isn't wired into the aircraft video system, so it should not be able to display the FLIR page, nor Maverick video. ED said they were going to correct this years ago and haven't yet, so that capability may disappear on you some day, or maybe not, who knows?

[BuzzU]

Bunny.........No answer to my question? I figured you'd know for sure.

[Tholozor]

11 hours ago, BuzzU said:

Speaking of the pods. The ATFLIR should be the only pod that should be used on the boat. The Litening can't take the beating of carrier landings.

Is this modeled in DCS?

Not modeled, but I suspect ED would ask for some kind of documentation detailing what kind of damage was observed/predicted in order to model it.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Tholozor

[BuzzU]

Thanks.

[Bunny Clark]

On 1/6/2023 at 5:20 PM, BuzzU said:

Bunny.........No answer to my question? I figured you'd know for sure.

I'm actually not sure. I've heard that the LITENING can't survive carrier operations, though that claim registers a bit high on my BS meter as I don't imagine it's much more fragile than ATFLIR. I've heard that the centerline mounting position the USMC uses for LITENING causes problems with carrier operations, as the pod picks up grease and oil splatter from cat shots. I've also heard that LITENING theoretically works just fine off the boat, the Navy just never saw the use in testing it to certify it for carrier ops since they already bought ATFLIR and certification costs time and money.

I don't have enough information to know which of the above explanations is most true.

[BuzzU]

Does either one have an advantage over the other?

[Harker]

Does either one have an advantage over the other?

IRL, the ATFLIR has better optical zoom, offering better picture quality from further away. The LITENING has less good optical zoom, while it allows to zoom in digitally (but digital zoom is offers worse quality than optical).

In DCS, depends on which one you prefer, since the picture quality doesn't degrade with digital zoom. I personally prefer the ATFLIR, because I can fully use it using the radar elevation controls, can slew SCENE, and is accurate to IRL for USN Hornets.

There are also other differences, but are irrelevant in the scope of DCS.

[BuzzU]

Thank you for a complete answer. I'm going to use the ATFLIR too.

How about masking? Are they equal on that?

[rob10]

Because you can put the Litening centre mounted it theoretically has less masking.  But then you give up the option of a centre fuel tank.  ATFLIR only goes on cheek.  Having said that (and maybe more because it's what I'm used to now more than anything), I find the ATFLIR much easier to use than the Litening.