Possibility for the F-15E to fly without CFT

[hip3rion]

Hello everybody,

 

I know that this title had a lot of you roll their eyes in a triple 360 backflip in their skull and have your pitchforks ready . The moderator slowly reaching for his holster...

But here it is, a week after the infamous thread of the F-15E forum has finally been locked, a comical twist of event brings us this :

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f-15e-strike-eagles-now-flying-without-conformal-fuel-tanks-on-air-defense-missions

 

I know we're getting a 2000ish era F-15E so this matter is settled but I thought it was too funny not to share.

 

Cheers !

[MAXsenna]

Damn what an interesting twist!
I wonder how long this thread will become, and how long it will survive!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[F-2]

Ha I was just gunna post this lol, anyone remember that show seconds from disaster?

[Pede]

59 minutes ago, hip3rion said:

Hello everybody,

 

I know that this title had a lot of you roll their eyes in a triple 360 backflip in their skull and have your pitchforks ready . The moderator slowly reaching for his holster...

But here it is, a week after the infamous thread of the F-15E forum has finally been locked, a comical twist of event brings us this :

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f-15e-strike-eagles-now-flying-without-conformal-fuel-tanks-on-air-defense-missions

 

I know we're getting a 2000ish era F-15E so this matter is settled but I thought it was too funny not to share.

 

Cheers !

Pics or it didn't happen. A random article on the internet is not a reliable source. For all we know, the article could be written by someone in this forum who was mad their thread got locked lmao. 

[=DROOPY=]

1 hour ago, hip3rion said:

 

I know we're getting a 2000ish era F-15E so this matter is settled but I thought it was too funny not to share! 

Hahaha

 

 

[Deano87]

7 hours ago, Pede said:

Pics or it didn't happen. A random article on the internet is not a reliable source. For all we know, the article could be written by someone in this forum who was mad their thread got locked lmao. 

There’s plenty of video out there of Strike eagles flying out of Lakenheath with AA fit and no CFTs. It’s been happening for months.

But as mentioned that probably doesn’t apply to the timeframe of the module we’re getting.

My opinion on this has changed. If units are doing it now I think it would be an interesting and valid thing to add to the module at some point later in development.

But I’m not sure if the juice would be worth the squeeze for the devs, having to totally change the FM etc.

Would be cool to see though. 

[Paladin1cd]

F-15E Strike Eagles Now Flying Without Conformal Fuel Tanks On Air Defense Missions (thedrive.com)

 

Not time specific, could be done with any model / variant as far as I can tell. 

[Deano87]

It is time specific, because it wasn’t being done during the time period the module is depicting. It’s not about the capability, it’s about it actually being used that way.

It’s being used that way now… but should that influence Razbam’s plans for the module in either the short or long term… I don’t know.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Deano87

[Nahen]

[Paladin1cd]

Doesn't matter. There are several capabilities we model for jets that we may not use, but if it is operationally possible we should have the option. If they were being pressed into service in the time frame it would have been done - it's just came earlier in DCS because we don't have a full fidelity light gray. So in many ways we don't have light gray eagles, and therefore it's the same tactical situation here in DCS. It would add so much to the module. 

Digital Combat Simulator. 

Let's simulate. 

[Fromthedeep]

2 hours ago, Deano87 said:

It is time specific, because it wasn’t being done during the time period the module is depicting. It’s not about the capability, it’s about it actually being used that way.

 

Then why are weapons on the wishlist that weren't used in the timeframe that they are modelling? Suite 4E+ only had GBU-31s, other JDAM variants were not possible, JHMCS was not implemented, SNIPER pod was not implemented, Mavericks are kind of a questionable edge case, JSOWs were not a thing in the USAF, the new UFC doesn't fit either, some other weapons on the wishlist from their Discord are also not a good fit like the GBU-39.

 

The good reason against the CFT removal is avoiding feature creep which already seems to be heavily present in the development, we don't need yet another feature that's so highly limited in utility aside from specific circumstances, but if you're gonna use the timeline argument, you should hold Razbam accountable on that basis for all of their decisions.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Fromthedeep

[Scott-S6]

2 hours ago, Paladin1cd said:

Doesn't matter. There are several capabilities we model for jets that we may not use, but if it is operationally possible we should have the option. 

Developing a whole second flight model is a LOT of work just to "have the option".

Edited January 28, 2023 by Scott-S6

[Njinsa]

15 minutes ago, Scott-S6 said:

Developing a whole second flight model is a LOT of work just to "have the option".

 

Fully agreed.

People neglect the fact that without accessible data (provided by relevant sources) there's no way such alternative flight model could be more representative than one used in other games like i.e. Hawx or WarThunder/FSX.

Getting at least a dozen proper EM diagrams/PS curves are absolute must in front of developer, not to account numerous tweaks being applied as a hints from SMEs.

And that is BIG IF since SMEs most probably never flew that bird with an actual ordnance.

[Scott-S6]

49 minutes ago, Njinsa said:

Fully agreed.

People neglect the fact that without accessible data (provided by relevant sources) there's no way such alternative flight model could be more representative than one used in other games like i.e. Hawx or WarThunder/FSX.

Getting at least a dozen proper EM diagrams/PS curves are absolute must in front of developer, not to account numerous tweaks being applied as a hints from SMEs.

And that is BIG IF since SMEs most probably never flew that bird with an actual ordnance.

Of course, RB could give the option to remove CFTs but, other than deleting hardpoints, it changes nothing. That would piss off the purists and the performance chasers.

[JOYFUL_CLOVR]

This topic is like herpes.... it keeps coming back.

[SkateZilla]

The Title of the Article is Mis-Leading, Current F-15E's aren't having CFTs Removed, 
The article is regarding the lack of CFTs Ordered with the F-15EX's, and When All the F-15EX's are delivered, there will not be enough CFT's for all F-15Es and F-15EX's,
So the F-15EX's that are replacing Aging F-15Cs would likely choose to operate without the CFTs in a Pure A2A Configuration, Leaving the CFTs and more Available A2G hardpoints for the F-15E's

As the F-15EX's can use the AMBER Launcher to carry plenty of AIM120s without the A2A Stores hardpoints on the CFTs.
(As the 4 A2A Hardpoints on the CFTs, there's 4 A2A Hardpoints on the main airframe),

Also the CFTs Do not have the Performance Impact that would be large enough to even be considered as a reason to remove them.
The Article is grasping at straws for reasons, when the main and only reason will be CFT Availability.

On that note:
The External Model for the F-15E likely makes the CFTs Part of the model and not removable as there is likely no wasted polygons underneath.

Second Note:
The Image in the Article is a stock public image taken years ago during maintenance, not of actual CFT's being removed for A2A Roles.
And in the picture itself, it's actually being re-installed.

Edited January 28, 2023 by SkateZilla

[Backy 51]

55 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

The Title of the Article is Mis-Leading, Current F-15E's aren't having CFTs Removed, 
The article is regarding the lack of CFTs Ordered with the F-15EX's, and When All the F-15EX's are delivered, there will not be enough CFT's for all F-15Es and F-15EX's,
So the F-15EX's that are replacing Aging F-15Cs would likely choose to operate without the CFTs in a Pure A2A Configuration, Leaving the CFTs and more Available A2G hardpoints for the F-15E's

As the F-15EX's can use the AMBER Launcher to carry plenty of AIM120s without the A2A Stores hardpoints on the CFTs.
(As the 4 A2A Hardpoints on the CFTs, there's 4 A2A Hardpoints on the main airframe),

Also the CFTs Do not have the Performance Impact that would be large enough to even be considered as a reason to remove them.
The Article is grasping at straws for reasons, when the main and only reason will be CFT Availability.

On that note:
The External Model for the F-15E likely makes the CFTs Part of the model and not removable as there is likely no wasted polygons underneath.

Second Note:
The Image in the Article is a stock public image taken years ago during maintenance, not of actual CFT's being removed for A2A Roles.
And in the picture itself, it's actually being re-installed.

 

I guess you're calling Jamie Hunter a disinformation spreader? SMH  The pros and cons of CFT usage are clearly stated in the article.  As for Razbam's intentions, I suspect that will be up to them.  I agree that reworking the 3D model and FM is probably not a priority at the moment.  But DCS is a video game, so anything is possible if a developer wants to code it.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Backy 51

[AdrianL]

5 minutes ago, Backy 51 said:

As for Razbam's intentions

That stated some time ago in their FAQ that the CFT will not be able to be removed.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by AdrianL

[SkateZilla]

No I said the Title is mis-leading,
Especially with the Wishlist requests here, for an F-15E w/ CFTs Removed. (Which the USAF doesn't do as they Have half a dozen A2A Role Aircraft to fill that role, Export Operators do if they have no A2A Role Aircraft).

This article wont justify the request, as it's not a F-15E, let alone an F-15E from the modelled Era.

F-15EX's that are going to C/D Sqns will not be getting CFTs, as they dont need them for the A2A Role.
The A2G Hardpoints and Extra Fuel are not needed in Air Defense roles, so it's common sense, if they dont have enough to go to all F-15E/F-15EX Units, Exclude the Units that don't need them to operate their mission.

F-15Es and F-15EXs replacing F-15Es in A2G Roles will continue to operate with the CFTs as they did before.

The CFT's have no Impact on the Aircrafts A2A Role, as the Missile Truck configuration relies on the AMBER Racks and not the CFTs.

Edited January 28, 2023 by SkateZilla

[AdrianL]

Well, Well. From the Razbam discord earlier today. 

But liable to be many years away

[Deano87]

1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

Current F-15E's aren't having CFTs Removed, 

That’s just simply incorrect. Entire 4 ship flights have been seen departing Lakenheath without CFTs, and with wing tanks and missiles. It’s been happening for a while.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Deano87

[SkateZilla]

F-15EX isnt a SE it's a SE II,
F-15E's that are exported operate them in a manner in the last 4 or 5 years due to A2A Mission needs,

So it would depend on how in depth RB wants to model export functions vs USAF/ANG F-15Es.
Remodeling the external shouldn't be that hard, as it's the side panels and some Attachment points
Creating an Alternate Flight Model, with the same engines, just adjusted Aero/Drag shouldn't be that hard, as the F-15E has the same Aero as the F-15D which has plenty of charts.

[Backy 51]

8 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

Well, Well. From the Razbam discord earlier today. 

But liable to be many years away

That's disinformation - OBVIOUSLY. You can't possibly trust a former WSO over a beta tester. Notso gets the gun kill. LOL

Edited January 28, 2023 by Backy 51

[SkateZilla]

2 minutes ago, Deano87 said:

That’s just simply incorrect. Entire 4 ship flights have been seen departing Lakenheath without CFTs, and with wing tanks and missiles. It’s been happening for a while.

 

Those are Export Operators,

Article was implying that Current USAF/ANG Units were removing the CFTs from Currently Operating Es in the USAF / ANG Inventory to operate in the A2A Role,
When it's in Fact the F-15EX's are being assigned to those units without CFTs to replace the F-15Cs.

So I stand by my understanding of what the article is saying.

3 minutes ago, Backy 51 said:

That's disinformation - OBVIOUSLY. You can't possibly trust a former WSO over a beta tester. LOL

My Status and Group on the forums have zero influence or impact on my statements.

[jeventy26]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f-15e-strike-eagles-now-flying-without-conformal-fuel-tanks-on-air-defense-missions