Pre-order, 17th of February’23

[Nahen]

1 minute ago, KAKTYC_11 said:

The doors of wallet closed ! Continuation of  that modul developing - without my support. I will think about late sales, may be ...they want me wait... i will wait...  This sh.t with not "holding" word is annoying ! That repeats almost every time again & again with any module , i dont care whos this fault . Thats disrespectful from them . Result -no money . Thats it !

p/s That  gouging from their side helps me make right decision & save money - i prefer Phantom & i m sure it reveal earlier  

If someone cared only about your money, I assure you that they would start the pre-sale before the first declared date ... you must have mixed up something

[Nahen]

Why the hell is there another pre-order thread? Any sense target?

 

[Beirut]

12 minutes ago, Nahen said:

Why the hell is there another pre-order thread? Any sense target?

 

 

2nd Law of Thermodynamics. 

[Beirut]

21 minutes ago, Phantom88 said:

Am I the only one that thinks something Much Bigger is happening here than just a preorder??? 
I mean…Pre-Order…just basically collecting money and no obligation for nothing immediately in return …Why delayed not once but twice??? 
I think we might be in for a nice surprise when Pre-Order finally happens 

 

Ooooohhhh...

 

I like your imagination. 

[gordenjay]

I still can't grasp how can "per order" be delayed...twice,

They don't have to deliver anything so delaying preorders doesn't make any sense from RAZBAM's standpoint,

Or maybe ED is the one who <profanity> up (can't prepare necessary material for only shop in time), but RAZBAM doesn't want to point fingers at ED?

My bet is on RAZBAM playing the mind game to get ppl's attention.

 

 

[RafaPolit]

I believe there are several key factors at play here.

Obviously no one will die due to a missed pre-release date. Obviously no one took vacations out to buy the module, since it’s not coming out immediately.  This is all true.

I am a software developer and I have probably missed more deadlines than the ones I have met, just because of the amount of unforeseen variables that come into play.  This is 100% true, but it, obviously, changes with the amount of, precisely, variables in the process.

So, if you have to develop a fully functional plane, with complex flight models and damage models and realistically simulated radars, etc., release date can miss by several months, for sure.  We would all understand that.  On the other hand, If you have to add a button to a webpage, then a three minute variable timeframe is already too long.

What’s really involved in a pre-release? A price, a text describing the module (of which every single module reads similarly and there’s already a “format”), and a video (which they have mostly already produced, several times).  There may be a few other variables, and if ED didn’t already have a platform for selling things, I would agree this is orders of magnitude more complex.  It’s not the case. That’s why everyone “kind of” understood the pushback from the 3rd to the 15th.

But, another delay on what already seems enough time to produce these very specific assets and which involve a lot less complexities than actual module development, does ring like a “how could you have miss-timed a preorder, where mostly everything you need is already in place”.

There could be other unforeseen factors, but at this point in the maturity of the software, there shouldn’t.  So this rises legitimate concerns on the company as to their ability to deliver what is promised.  Given that we have many other modules (or even games!) to chose from, this is not trivial.

I agree that they “wouldn’t have delayed unless absolutely necessary” as has been pointed out here, but the fact that they had to do it, twice, on a reasonably “simple” process, is of concern to some of us.

Edited February 15, 2023 by RafaPolit

[Grodin]

3 minutes ago, gordenjay said:

I still can't grasp how can "per order" be delayed...twice,

They don't have to deliver anything so delaying preorders doesn't make any sense from RAZBAM's standpoint,

Or maybe ED is the one who <profanity> up (can't prepare necessary material for only shop in time), but RAZBAM doesn't want to point fingers at ED?

My bet is on RAZBAM playing the mind game to get ppl's attention.

 

 

I would guess ED wants to see certain amount of progress before they allow a module to go on pre-order. Maybe some key featured ED wants were lacking so they didnt allow pre order yet? Don't know, but that would make sense.

[RafaPolit]

1 minute ago, Grodin said:

I would guess ED wants to see certain amount of progress before they allow a module to go on pre-order. Maybe some key featured ED wants were lacking so they didnt allow pre order yet? Don't know, but that would make sense.

No, because then they wouldn’t have already announced a date (ED I mean).  They had already “approved” the process, that means they thought it was already there.

Still, this brings up a matter of transparency: if they would put out a more transparent communication, we wouldn’t be speculating about it.

[VpR81]

Instead of beeing disapointed, people should keep in mind that we are talking about a pre-order delay, not a release date delay. And even if it was, this wouldn´t be the first module beeing delayed. Not realy a big deal IMO. What are 48h anyways? literally nothing compared to the time we´ve been waiting for this module. The delay might not even be related to the module itself. Maybe there is an issue with the shop and they want to start pre-order for the ED shop and Steam at the exact same time (or vice versa), maybe ED or Razbam have staff needed for the process beeing sick, etc. etc. Can be anything, but i would assume if there would be a significant issue with the module itself, the delay would have been more than 2 days. Just my 2 cents...

[Jarhead0331]

53 minutes ago, Phantom88 said:

I think we might be in for a nice surprise when Pre-Order finally happens 

Wishful thinking, bruh. Don't get your hopes up.

[Phantom_Mark]

Personally I would be quite happy if no projects were announced in advance, the first you hear about it is when the option to buy it goes live, suit me just fine, not waiting for something if you never know it is coming until it is here then right ?

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

To be fair, South Atlantic map was. A few videos, no ETA at all, when it popped up, it was very basic, but it had the things we love and could play right away, so that was no complaint, unlike the SE project.

[WarbossPetross]

4 часа назад, Nahen сказал:

And now I have a simple - this time a serious - question for all those who accuse RAZBAM of incompetent project management, straining patience, not keeping deadlines, etc.

Tell/write what did you lose, how much did your life collapse due to the fact that RAZBAM, as the creator of this particular module, stated that he is not ready to put it on pre-sale now?

Well, I haven't lost anything yet, but I can tell you what I can lose - money. Although I'm not sure that the toilet paper I'm paid in even qualifies as such seeing how it inflates (imagine paying with $5 and $10 coins ten years later). At the moment they are keeping the rate fixed, but if they let it go my local bucks won't be worth the ink their value is written with, or they might shut down payments out of the country altogether. So you can see I'm quite interested to seal the deal while I can still afford it. Granted, this sounds somewhat extreme, but I guess you can see how a real case can be made for pre-ordering stuff.

Edited February 15, 2023 by WarbossPetross

[Robi Hobby]

Too bad, all my anticipation for today is gone! I had been looking forward to it all day. Good food in the canteen, the Sun can come back after several Days of Fog. Everything was good.
Today is also February 15th  F-15!   Would be such a nice day for the pre-Order. I only feel disappointment, even if it's only been 2 days delay , the anticipation is absolutely gone! 

[Raisuli]

Jilted again.  Left standing in a snow storm with my credit card in hand and nothing to use it on. 

 

Of course this is the pre-order, so it's not like we have to wait two more days to download, but there's something satisfying about knowing all you need to do is download on release day.

 

Ah, well.  Back to simpit 2.8.  Might get that done before the actual release.

[PluckyUnderdog]

1 hour ago, Phantom88 said:

Am I the only one that thinks something Much Bigger is happening here than just a preorder??? 
I mean…Pre-Order…just basically collecting money and no obligation for nothing immediately in return …Why delayed not once but twice??? 
I think we might be in for a nice surprise when Pre-Order finally happens 

It's an interesting take, but personally,  no I just think they (Razbam) have handled this poorly.

Edited February 15, 2023 by PluckyUnderdog
Addition of a sentence

[ElCoyote_]

3 hours ago, Nahen said:

This is the phenomenon of the entire F-15 family - they are relatively simple planes to master - the idea of their creation and operation was exactly this - give the pilot as much space as possible for his skills without overwhelming him with unnecessary information, complicated devices, etc. You can do it

Thank you, gives me a lot of hope!

[Phantom88]

1 hour ago, Jarhead0331 said:

Wishful thinking, bruh. Don't get your hopes up.

 I'm a Glass is Always Full  kind of guy!!

Cheers!!!

 

[shaneduce]

7 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Folks appreciate you are disappointed about the date shifting of the pre-order, but please try to understand they would not have delayed unless they absolutely needed to. 

Please keep the feedback civil and thank you for being patient. 

 

I'm ready to have the mod. but this is a pro-order. I love to give them the money I saved up NOW. I have waited this long to spend my money there is no harm in waiting longer. As of right now we do not know when it will be released much less when we even will get access to it. 

I get the feeling that there is a lot of people think that pre-order mean's they get the mod sooner. AKA now, not at some untold time down the road. I'm having a hard time understanding why they are mad at all. 

[Phantom88]

23 minutes ago, PluckyUnderdog said:

It's an interesting take, but personally,  no I just think they (Razbam) have handled this poorly.

 

A few things make me think this way other than the pre-order delay...

- Tutorial Videos coming more frequent

-Baltic Dragon Manual Updates coming more frequent

[RafaPolit]

1 hour ago, Phantom_Mark said:

Personally I would be quite happy if no projects were announced in advance, the first you hear about it is when the option to buy it goes live, suit me just fine, not waiting for something if you never know it is coming until it is here then right ?

I think that pre-orders are a good way to inject cash flow into a project before the project is ready for release.  Being a developer, it's a very complex scenario to require funding for several developers and systems and hardware and have to pay for that from your pocket for 2 or 3 years until the product is mature enough to be sustainable.

Crowd-funding, pre-release sales, grants, external investments... all these mechanisms help mitigate that.  Some come with strings attached, others require you to present a project to the community and hope they trust in your ability to deliver, and, therefore, be able to pay up front without getting anything usable for several months.  It's a leap of faith from the users, and there is no security you won't simply lose that money.  But, on the other hand, the developers don't need to make a profit to investors.  So, it's a good option for me.

Since it's asking a lot of faith from the users, it comes with a very good discounted price, which is also a good incentive to just risk it (from the buyers perspective).

So I think pre-orders are win-win situations, as long as they don't actually make more damage than they do good.

Obviously, if you can produce the funds until the system is ready, by all means avoid pre-sales and just market when ready, you have to deal with a lot less frustration and anxiety from the customer base.

[Beirut]

9 minutes ago, shaneduce said:

 

I get the feeling that there is a lot of people think that pre-order mean's they get the mod sooner. 

 

I don't think so. We're all experienced whiners here. We know how it works.

 

As stated, there are many who simply find it fun to pre-order modules. The joy of spending, the expectation of something to come that's already paid for, and you get to chat about it with others here on the forums. It's all part of the game.

[Nahen]

3 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

I don't think so. We're all experienced whiners here. We know how it works.

 

As stated, there are many who simply find it fun to pre-order modules. The joy of spending, the expectation of something to come that's already paid for, and you get to chat about it with others here on the forums. It's all part of the game.

And that's why RAZBAM is postponing pre-sale dates so that this waiting doesn't end, so that you want to come here every day. If he hadn't done so, I wouldn't have had anything to wait from two days... the money would have been spent, the joy of the purchase fulfilled... And so we're chasing the rabbit all the time And let's hope it lasts as long as possible Emotions, emotions, emotions!!!! !

[RafaPolit]

7 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

I don't think so. We're all experienced whiners here. We know how it works.

 

As stated, there are many who simply find it fun to pre-order modules. The joy of spending, the expectation of something to come that's already paid for, and you get to chat about it with others here on the forums. It's all part of the game.

For me the pre-order discount is a big part of the equation.

[PluckyUnderdog]

18 minutes ago, Phantom88 said:

A few things make me think this way other than the pre-order delay...

- Tutorial Videos coming more frequent

-Baltic Dragon Manual Updates coming more frequent

I do like the optimism, haha. I would be amazed if you're right though, I'm afraid.