Meta Quest Pro Settings

[VirusAM]

The answer is very simply. As I know its needed, this setting from ODT doesnt work with QP what was writen here in many time. I prefer behavior as it was in Reverb. MT has an CTD issue as well, see this (this is repeated in several topics):
 

I meant for the debug tool is not needed.

[Maksim Savelev]

I'm wondering, would it be a chance to get any new technology (not a quad view) which can give pure performance boost utilizing  eye tracking and being  somewhat like foveated rendering?

[mbucchia]

8 hours ago, Maksim Savelev said:

I'm wondering, would it be a chance to get any new technology (not a quad view) which can give pure performance boost utilizing  eye tracking and being  somewhat like foveated rendering?

Quad views foveated is giving up to double-digit frame times boost in GPU-limited scenarios by saving at several stages of the rendering pipeline (raster, pixel shading, overall VRAM bandwidth). The downside is increased CPU usage due to redundant geometry submission.

Very confused by your post. What is your suggestion for this new technology?

VRS foveated rendering is also possible but the gains are much much lower since only saving at the pixel shading stage (see OpenXR Toolkit foveated rendering, low single-digit frame time gains). It has only very little downside on the CPU side however.

Dynamic LOD foveated rendering would be the only option to help with CPU and vertex shading, but can only be implemented directly in the engine. I don't think anyone has ever attempted it.

There aren't really other techs available (or please suggest for my review).

Edited September 4, 2023 by mbucchia

[Maksim Savelev]

2 часа назад, mbucchia сказал:

Quad views foveated is giving up to double-digit frame times boost in GPU-limited scenarios by saving at several stages of the rendering pipeline (raster, pixel shading, overall VRAM bandwidth). The downside is increased CPU usage due to redundant geometry submission.

Very confused by your post. What is your suggestion for this new technology?

VRS foveated rendering is also possible but the gains are much much lower since only saving at the pixel shading stage (see OpenXR Toolkit foveated rendering, low single-digit frame time gains). It has only very little downside on the CPU side however.

Dynamic LOD foveated rendering would be the only option to help with CPU and vertex shading, but can only be implemented directly in the engine. I don't think anyone has ever attempted it.

There aren't really other techs available (or please suggest for my review).

 

Here is nothing to be confused with. If you track my messages from a previous page you will see, that me and couple of other gentlemen can confirm that with pretty much up to date system (13900K or 5800x3d with RTX 4090 and 64Gb ram) we have less performances with Quad-Views enabled. Which basically does this technology unusable, at least for me. I really do appreciate your hard work especially because you are the only person who really understands how VR works. I'm not aware of any other technology, that's why I've been asking you, because it's really petty to have an eye-tracking function in the headset  and not be able to get any benefits out of it. But I think it is just way we've learned through the times that foveated rendering can gain some performances for us. And I think you're absolutely right that it should be implemented into the game  engine in the first place. For example, standalone game Red Matter 2 has this technology enabled and it works perfectly.

Thank you very much for you time!

[nikoel]

2 hours ago, mbucchia said:

Quad views foveated is giving up to double-digit frame times boost in GPU-limited scenarios by saving at several stages of the rendering pipeline (raster, pixel shading, overall VRAM bandwidth). The downside is increased CPU usage due to redundant geometry submission.

Very confused by your post. What is your suggestion for this new technology?

VRS foveated rendering is also possible but the gains are much much lower since only saving at the pixel shading stage (see OpenXR Toolkit foveated rendering, low single-digit frame time gains). It has only very little downside on the CPU side however.

Dynamic LOD foveated rendering would be the only option to help with CPU and vertex shading, but can only be implemented directly in the engine. I don't think anyone has ever attempted it.

There aren't really other techs available (or please suggest for my review).

 

Hey Matthieu

Is the redundant geometry submission happening on the same thread[s]?

When i am CPU limited, I notice that my CPU is not at 100%. In theory telling me that I am being bottlenecked by the utilisation of the main thread

However, Varjo counterparts run higher resolutions at 90hz/90fps. We are running lower resolutions (still 1.3-1.5x supersampled) but unable to achieve 72fps under some conditions

I have a high end system, 5800X3D with a 4090 and 64GB Ram, better than many of the Varjo Bourgeoisie 

It doesn't make sense unless there is something else at play. Do you think that there may be bottlenecks introduced by oculus somewhere?

Edited September 4, 2023 by nikoel

[Digitalvole]

So the kids are back at school, and I’m  sat I’m my shed with my new QP in my lap but…

Sorry to be a pain but could someone point me to a post with the settings I should have for my QP?

Ive read all 14 pages 3 times now, and I’m just getting myself more confused. 

I’ve owned a rift and a rift S and use to use the Oculus Debug Tool, never tried the Tray Tool. Are they essentially the same thing?

System: 5900x 4090 64gb Ram.

Its Monday morning so I fully understand if I get told to do one

 

[mbucchia]

I see.

I will say, you can't really compare PCVR to standalone though. Red Matter 2 does VRS foveated rendering (same thing OpenXR Toolkit does) but it is in standalone, with a much weaker GPU, so there are a lot more bottlenecks to address. I think several have confirmed that VRS on fast GPUs like 4090 is just not helping that much compared to lower-end RTX cards. 

I'm aware that a few users are only seeing their GPU bottleneck replaced by a CPU or vertex shading bottleneck with quad views, however it seems to be a very small minority of users. The only solution to this problem would be a better implementation of the rendering in the engine, such as use of instanced rendering (DCS does not do instanced rendering at all even for stereo AFAIK), usage of geometry shaders or better command list handling (requires D3D12 or Vulkan).

It sounds however that ED has little interest in improving quad views support, as shown by the 5 different bugs that have been brought up to them since January, and none of them have been acknowledged or addressed, even the most basic ones like the blatant violation of OpenXR spec and the incorrect submission of FOV data in MT... these are like, 30 minutes each to produce a fix

[mbucchia]

5 minutes ago, nikoel said:

Hey Matthieu

Is the redundant geometry submission happening on the same thread[s]?

When i am CPU limited, I notice that my CPU is not at 100%. In theory telling me that I am being bottlenecked by the utilisation of the main thread

However, Varjo counterparts run higher resolutions at 90hz/90fps. We are running lower resolutions (still 1.3-1.5x supersampled) but unable to achieve 72fps under some conditions

I have a high end system, 5800X3D with a 4090 and 64GB Ram, better than many of the Varjo Bourgeoisie 

It doesn't make sense unless there is something else at play. Do you think that there may be bottlenecks introduced by oculus somewhere?

 

Your CPU (not) being maxed out is not an indication of (not) being CPU-bound. I think I've been told that MT in DCS is just basic stuff like rendering being on its own thread. Now that thread has to do 2x more work for the 2 extra views.

The Oculus software isn't involved at all in the process of rendering and doing quad views, so it's quite doubtful it would make a difference. Especially if you have Turbo Mode, the only place where Oculus tends to waste cycles is bypassed. The overhead of QVFR was measured (even in those situations where "performance gets worse") and confirmed to be negligible (under 200 microseconds/frame on both CPU and GPU). So the issue isn't there either.

I've mostly heard these performance issues happen with specific aircrafts(?), probably they have more complex geometry? Or maybe some bogus vertex shaders? The only way to tell would be to do a precise performance analysis, which is quite a complex task involving a GPUView capture then analyzing each payload one by one and trying to map them to what the game engine does.

[Bazz_Mulder]

5 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

So the kids are back at school, and I’m  sat I’m my shed with my new QP in my lap but…

Sorry to be a pain but could someone point me to a post with the settings I should have for my QP?

Ive read all 14 pages 3 times now, and I’m just getting myself more confused. 

I’ve owned a rift and a rift S and use to use the Oculus Debug Tool, never tried the Tray Tool. Are they essentially the same thing?

System: 5900x 4090 64gb Ram.

Its Monday morning so I fully understand if I get told to do one

 

Oculus Debug Tool and Oculus Tray Tool do the same changes but from different app. ODT seems to “forget” FOV and SS setting every reboot, where OTT remembers them. Also, in OTT you can setup profiles for different games with different FOV and SS settings.

I was messing a lot with settings posted here and on reddit and came to some conclusions:

1. Set headset refresh/resolution in main Oculus Home app for 72hz at 1.3x resolution.

2. Open ODT as administrator (exe under C:\Program Files\Oculus\Support\oculus-diagnostics) and set

     a) main settings:

       - Distortion Curvature to Low (better clarity around edges)

       - Encode Bitrate to 960 | 500 in case of audio dropouts (you need to paste that number from some text file and hit enter)

       - Link Sharpening to taste - I have it on Quality

       - leave the rest as it is, on 0 or default 

     b) then you can experiment with:

       - Pixel per Display Override (SuperSampling multiplication) - 0 is default. I have it at 1.25 so I'm adding 0.25% Super Sampling over default resolution.

       - and with FOV Tangent Multiplier for Horizontal and Vertical FOV (value to not see black bars will depend on your headset position on you head), start from            setting both at 0.85 and go lower/higher to set FOV for you.

I also use (PC) Async Spacewarp (reprojection) on auto but see what's good for you.

That will get you on the right track for nice picture quality.

Then you can mess with DCS settings, OpenXR (i have CAS enabled at 75%) and "Eye Tracking FR (QVFR)", but baseline will be there.

After you will get a grip of ODT you can install OTT, it will save your changes for FOV's and SS values. In ODT you must enter them every time Pc or Oculus Home app is restarted.

Also, after setting FOV's, I need to close "Link in pcvr desktop" in headset and go back to "Home VR room" and fire up "Link connection" again to see FOV changes set.

I hope is clear somewhat clear  Good luck!

Edited September 4, 2023 by Bazz_Mulder

[Digitalvole]

Many Thank yous @Bazz_Mulder that is very very helpful!

One quick question, my link cabal only seems to connect through the usb c port on the top of my PC not the one at the back. I find this odd as my G2 was working fine with that port. Anyhoo the one it will connect to has a bandwidth of 3.0Gbps, is that going to cut the mustard?

[Bazz_Mulder]

Just now, Digitalvole said:

Many Thank yous @Bazz_Mulder that is very very helpful!

One quick question, my link cabal only seems to connect through the usb c port on the top of my PC not the one at the back. I find this odd as my G2 was working fine with that port. Anyhoo the one it will connect to has a bandwidth of 3.0Gbps, is that going to cut the mustard?

3.0Gbps is fine, mine speed is at 2.2Gbps per Oculus cable speed test. 

[Digitalvole]

8 minutes ago, Bazz_Mulder said:

3.0Gbps is fine, mine speed is at 2.2Gbps per Oculus cable speed test. 

Thank god for that! I had a moment there.

Thanks again, you’ve really helped me out. 
 

Im currently stuck because I can’t remember my Wi-Fi password, haha.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Digitalvole

[Mr_sukebe]

Chaps,

Apologies for sounding a bit thick.

In the Config file for the quad foveated rendering are the following settings:

[Oculus]
peripheral_multiplier=0.4
focus_multiplier=1.1
horizontal_focus_section=0.5
vertical_focus_section=0.5
turbo_mode=1

 

How do those interact with the "rings" that are used by OpenXRToolkit to define the levels of dynamic foveated rendering?

Do the horizontal and vertical refer to the use of a rectangle for DFR, that ignores the three rings of OpenXRToolkit?

Does turbo_mode=1 mean that it's enabled and that I should change it to zero to turn it off?  I don't have issues in game.

 

[YoYo]

4 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

Many Thank yous @Bazz_Mulder that is very very helpful!

One quick question, my link cabal only seems to connect through the usb c port on the top of my PC not the one at the back. I find this odd as my G2 was working fine with that port. Anyhoo the one it will connect to has a bandwidth of 3.0Gbps, is that going to cut the mustard?

The orginal cable has limit 5 Gbps. I have port USB-C with 20 Gbps, my test in Oculus software shows 2,6 Gbps max so if your test shows 3 Gbps will be ok.

Edited September 4, 2023 by YoYo

[Digitalvole]

2 hours ago, YoYo said:

The orginal cable has limit 5 Gbps. I have port USB-C with 25 Gbps, my test in Oculus software shows 2,6 Gbps max so if your test shows 3 Gbps will be ok.

Thanks, good to know. Having just had a quick go with it, having copied the settings from @Bazz_Mulder very helpful post above I’m finding the audio is cutting out and it’s quite juddery. Was thinking this might because of the link? Would sub optimal link affect gpu frame times and/or audio? Edit. I forgot to say, the headset went from 75% charged to 25% (got a low battery warning) in about an hour of use whilst connected via the link cable, is this normal? I’m getting a bit suspicious about the cabal tbh.

Also no matter how I adjust the headset the screen seems too high. Bit of a crap explanation that so I’ll try harder… For example in the AH64D I’m finding it hard to read/focus on the stuff at the top of the monocle. I’m going to need the full face mask thing, that gap at the bottom is a bit big and distracting. Got a bit of eye strain in my right eye too.

Have to say I was expecting a bit more of a performance boost (probably just showing my ignorance) from 72mhz. Haven’t changed any settings in DCS from my G2, but my gpu frame times in the ah64/Syria are in the mid twenties. On the plus side Oculus asw is pretty damn good.

Im out of tinkering time now, drat and blast, but I’m feeling like there is quite a bit more to be done. Still need to try quad view too.

Thanks for the help.

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Digitalvole

[YoYo]

31 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Thanks, good to know. Having just had a quick go with it, having copied the settings from @Bazz_Mulder very helpful post above I’m finding the audio is cutting out and it’s quite juddery. Was thinking this might because of the link? Would sub optimal link affect gpu frame times and/or audio?

Also no matter how I adjust the headset the screen seems too high. Bit of a crap explanation that so I’ll try harder… For example in the AH64D I’m finding it hard to read/focus on the stuff at the top of the monocle. I’m going to need the full face mask thing, that gap at the bottom is a bit big and distracting. Got a bit of eye strain in my right eye too.

Have to say I was expecting a bit more of a performance boost (probably just showing my ignorance) from 72mhz. Haven’t changed any settings in DCS from my G2, but my gpu frame times in the ah64/Syria are in the mid twenties. On the plus side Oculus asw is pretty damn good.

Im out of tinkering time now, drat and blast, but I’m feeling like there is quite a bit more to be done. Still need to try quad view too.

Thanks for the help.

 

Im using 72Hz and it works graet for me, stable 72Hz=72fps in 98% of situations (MT version, no any ASW) its a noticable performance boost for me compared to G2 (without motion reprojection and 90Hz). What also helped me was giving FOV 85% vertically and horizontally. 

I have full gasket however now Im using this orginal and its a good choose for me. Now I dont want to back to full gasket: 1/ better ventilation especially in the last very hot days, zero evaporation as in G2, 2/ at beginning I was against this hole, but when I tried to find something much easier on my lower panels, somehow it doesn't bother me and it doesn't distract me, maybe it's only worse for night flights (deep night) but I like this solution very much now.

Edited September 4, 2023 by YoYo

[slughead]

31 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

I’m finding the audio is cutting out and it’s quite juddery

Reset your encoder back to default. 960mbps is the cause of the choppy audio. Default settings are adequate.

33 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

the headset went from 75% charged to 25% (got a low battery warning) in about an hour of use whilst connected via the link cable, is this normal?

This is not normal. The lowest I have reached is 53% after a couple of hours of use.

[slughead]

35 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Have to say I was expecting a bit more of a performance boost (probably just showing my ignorance) from 72mhz. Haven’t changed any settings in DCS from my G2, but my gpu frame times in the ah64/Syria are in the mid twenties.

Reset any PD override you may be using in the ODT/OTT. Just use the resolution setting in the Oculus app. 1.3x I find it adequate and haven't seen any difference in visual clarity above that. Setting it in two places is multiplying the two together and adding much more demand on the rendering application.

[YoYo]

25 minutes ago, slughead said:

This is not normal. The lowest I have reached is 53% after a couple of hours of use.

I think it depends primarily on the USB-C port in the computer and the motherboard and the charging power on this port (usually the best is on the back, marked as red connection). I've never dropped below 76% and that's after ... about 4 hours of flying in multiplayer. I usually start the session at 100%, they load pretty quickly and I end up at 90-80%.

If he connects somewhere in the front, it may be a lower generation of C-port. The motherboard in this case is quite important.

Edited September 4, 2023 by YoYo

[Bazz_Mulder]

59 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Thanks, good to know. Having just had a quick go with it, having copied the settings from @Bazz_Mulder very helpful post above I’m finding the audio is cutting out and it’s quite juddery. Was thinking this might because of the link? Would sub optimal link affect gpu frame times and/or audio? Edit. I forgot to say, the headset went from 75% charged to 25% (got a low battery warning) in about an hour of use whilst connected via the link cable, is this normal? I’m getting a bit suspicious about the cabal tbh.

Also no matter how I adjust the headset the screen seems too high. Bit of a crap explanation that so I’ll try harder… For example in the AH64D I’m finding it hard to read/focus on the stuff at the top of the monocle. I’m going to need the full face mask thing, that gap at the bottom is a bit big and distracting. Got a bit of eye strain in my right eye too.

Have to say I was expecting a bit more of a performance boost (probably just showing my ignorance) from 72mhz. Haven’t changed any settings in DCS from my G2, but my gpu frame times in the ah64/Syria are in the mid twenties. On the plus side Oculus asw is pretty damn good.

Im out of tinkering time now, drat and blast, but I’m feeling like there is quite a bit more to be done. Still need to try quad view too.

Thanks for the help.

 

 

Lower "Encoding bit rate" to 500 or 0 (default) if you have audio cutouts, I'm fine on my system with my setting. Charging over OEM cable is somewhat hit-and-miss. Some people on Reddit have similar problems with no charging. For start you will need to check your bios settings and disable any “green” settings for usb.

But as Yoyo said, maybe your front port is not charging when in link mode.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Bazz_Mulder

[Digitalvole]

Thanks @Bazz_Mulder @YoYo and@slughead I do suspect something is afoot with the link cabal, checked my mobo gubbins and it says the USB C port at the back is usb 3.2 but the link cabal doesn’t seem to work in that one. Typical.

Anyoo, it’s school run time so will be able to go over all the advice in more depth after the little Herberts have gone to bed.

[VirusAM]

5 hours ago, mbucchia said:

I see.

I will say, you can't really compare PCVR to standalone though. Red Matter 2 does VRS foveated rendering (same thing OpenXR Toolkit does) but it is in standalone, with a much weaker GPU, so there are a lot more bottlenecks to address. I think several have confirmed that VRS on fast GPUs like 4090 is just not helping that much compared to lower-end RTX cards. 

I'm aware that a few users are only seeing their GPU bottleneck replaced by a CPU or vertex shading bottleneck with quad views, however it seems to be a very small minority of users. The only solution to this problem would be a better implementation of the rendering in the engine, such as use of instanced rendering (DCS does not do instanced rendering at all even for stereo AFAIK), usage of geometry shaders or better command list handling (requires D3D12 or Vulkan).

It sounds however that ED has little interest in improving quad views support, as shown by the 5 different bugs that have been brought up to them since January, and none of them have been acknowledged or addressed, even the most basic ones like the blatant violation of OpenXR spec and the incorrect submission of FOV data in MT... these are like, 30 minutes each to produce a fix

@BIGNEWY maybe you as VR user yourself could bring this to someone's attention-... 

 

[BIGNEWY]

I can mention it to the team, but can not promise anything at the moment. More tweaking for multithreading and working towards vulkan is our goal currently. 

[Digitalvole]

3 hours ago, Bazz_Mulder said:

. For start you will need to check your bios settings and disable any “green” settings for usb.

 

What are green settings? Or is it obvious when I’m in bios?(not somewhere I go very often)

Got it connected via the port at the back now but battery is still draining pretty quickly. I’ve left it on the dock all afternoon and it didn’t charge at all, though the controllers did. I did have the link cable plugged in, but the computer was off.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Digitalvole

[slughead]

16 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

What are green settings? Or is it obvious when I’m in bios?(not somewhere I go very often)

Got it connected via the port at the back now but battery is still draining pretty quickly. I’ve left it on the dock all afternoon and it didn’t charge at all, though the controllers did. I did have the link cable plugged in, but the computer was off.

 

If it’s not charging in the dock then power cycle the headset then check again.