GlobalAv Posted March 7, 2023 Posted March 7, 2023 Hi everyone, I am still experiencing issues when trying to bug a second target while in RWS mode. I am finding it extremely difficult/impossible to manipulate the radar to the proper elevation to bug a second target as it jumps around (the radar, not the bandit)either too high or too low. It is important to note that this behavior does not occur with the radar elevation when bugging the the first target. I would greatly appreciate anyone who could post a track that demonstrates this issue. I suspect this is only an issue for those who have the radar elevation mapped to a button on their hotas (I'm currently using a winwing orion with radar elevation mapped to the rocker button). At first I thought this was an issue related to my hotas, but after swapping out my orion hotas with my backup hotas the problem persists. (logitech x56). Directions to reproduce the issue: Ensure radar elevation is mapped to a button(s) for increase/decrease and set the radar for RWS. Place two bandits at different altitudes but relatively equal distance from you (say 25nm out, one at 30k and the other at 10k feet). You should have no problem manipulating the radar elevation to easily bug the first target. After bugging the first target, attempting to move the radar to the proper elevation will be very difficult and often impossible to bug the second target. Please note, this has only been an issue for me during the last several months and I have experienced no such issues with the radar elevation during the first year of owning this module. I have also noticed if I am faced with two bandits I can easily bug one target, launch a missile at him, tms down to debug him, and then the radar elevation will move normally so that I can proceed to bug the second target. This is far from ideal, but is the best workaround I could find currently. Thanks in advance to anyone who can post a track that demonstrates this issue.
Moonshine Posted March 7, 2023 Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) same topic as raised here. I did two different tests with no particular issues. Feel free to use the tracks attached and use them for your tests. If the targets are within reasonable distance to each-other i did not see any issue bugging them. the only time this could get difficult is when one is significantly lower/higher than the other and exceeds radar scan limits. on a different note, at times (with awacs / DL present), designating any contact is only possible after the DL updated the contacts location despite what your radar sees as „bricks“. That could lead to issues designating anything and was raised in a different topic. will reference it once i found the post edit: found the post Maybe @BIGNEWY can look at this with the DL issue in mind Edited March 7, 2023 by Moonshine
Terzi Posted March 7, 2023 Posted March 7, 2023 @GlobalAv I noticed the same thing but I always thought that the radar takes some time to look at the first target then it continues to search the elevations that is bound to your hotas elevation settings. This process goes on and on and while switching the elevation focus, the elevation ranges on the FCR will update respectively. Yes this is weird, however I am not sure how it is supposed to work. [CENTER] [/CENTER]
falconzx Posted March 7, 2023 Posted March 7, 2023 It's correct and it's supposed to work as it is. The fact that's being not considered is the RL axis. That's why I use an absolute axis like in the RL F-16.If you have a rotary under your fingers you feel the physical position of it, you feel the detents, so on the F-16 you dont need any hint or symbology to know where the antenna is commanded to look, i understand SAM stage of RWS can be tricky with buttons, because you have to look what the antenna is doing after you commanded the change and not while you are changing it. 1
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 7, 2023 ED Team Posted March 7, 2023 please include a short as possible track replay showing the issue. thank you Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
777coletrain Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 I believe I'm having the same problem. Here is a track file. You can see the elevation jumping when a target is bugged F16 RDR elevation 5 16 23.trk 1 1
Moonshine Posted May 31, 2023 Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) Is there any update on this topic@BIGNEWY? Seein the track has now been provided. This at times proves to be a big problem when trying to use DTT, upon bugging the first contact, the radar elevation changes and a the designation of the second contact (even when they literally fly in formation) is not achievable Edited May 31, 2023 by Moonshine
einarabelc5 Posted May 31, 2023 Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) Here are my two cents, have you (as members of this thread) considered the aspect could also be affecting this. Is the aspect in the OP test the same and is it worth it disambiguating it from the altitude? This is my experience, I literally started using the Nevada Instant Action missions with the Aim-120 and am running into the same problem. I thought it was related to people saying the radar is too weak in the F-16. The interface is amazing but that thing loses lock like there's no tomorrow. In my case I thought it was related to the drones changing aspect constantly since they're going in circles around Steering Point 1 at different altitudes. I thought it was the radar model, since everyone complains that it is too weak, but it seems it's a bug like it was pointed here. Same thing, DTT, radar loses lock so you literally have no TIME to sift through all the targets, etc. By the time you figured it out, you already are flying past the drones. That constant change of aspect in a small way (no F5 drone is yanking), combined with the fact that the range of the AIm-120c on this latest 2.8.4 MT version is really small for some unknown reason (less than 20 nm) even though it has been mentioned in media and several the range has been increased, makes it practically impossible to train both DTT and TWS modes with the FCR which is pretty frustrating. I did not have this problem against the newish ACE AI when in Hot aspect, so it has to be a problem with the aspect constantly changing, not just the elevation, at least for me. Edit, I've read about TMS on both the ED and Chuck manuals. Is it possible that on TMS the 3 bar scan simply loses the furthermost altitude target when the opposite is bugged? I mean, I have targets at these altitudes: 8, 16 and 24 and already noticed that 1 bar gives you at 20nm of range from the nose the following elevation scan ranges: 1b 10 nm, 2b 15 nm and 4b 19 nm, what altitude does 3b gives? Apparently 17 nautical miles, just enough to cover the 16 nm of range between the lowest and highest plane. The problem then is not the altitude, but the aspect. Notice that these 3 planes are following an elliptical trajectory and change their aspect constantly, therefore, the range of the AIM-120C is reduced when they're cold and increased when they're hot. So does the capacity of the FCR to get good tracks on them. So the following question derives, why doesn't the F-16 have an Interleaved mode like the SU-27 or even the F-15C(I know that they're simplified models) where you can combine high frequency scanning with medium frequency scanning to better track a combination of hot and cold targets and targets transitioning? Edited June 2, 2023 by einarabelc5
Rongor Posted June 14, 2023 Posted June 14, 2023 Just had something like this, only I wasn't even attempting to DTT. After I had bugged a single RWS contact, the antenna altitude automatically flipped every 2 seconds or so. I have a track file, yet (of course) its not short. 2
falconzx Posted June 26, 2023 Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) Here a track to show the radar elevation position AXIS resets on the bugged contact in SAM mode. (I use an absolute axis rotary like in the RL Hotas) I've put a plane HIGH and another at my altitude circa, so after bumping up elevation to find the first one, i should see the second one just diving my antenna until i feel the center detent, this is not happening, so i dive my axis more deep down until i find the co-altitude plane. In the second track instead i managed to reproduce in a very similar situation the antenna not recentering on bugged contact, and working correctly allowing me to scan at the desidered elevation commanded by my rotary knob. I don't know how it happened but it happened twice in this track, i think you can easily debug and discover how i magically fixed the antenna . At the same time in this track i've put A1 to show how the antenna go back on the bugged contact at increased frequency, so fast that it's quite an inefficent scan(i think the narrower should be likely the only one capable to complete a scan in SAM). Seems the frequency of "going back to check the track" is not related to a time factor but to how much of the azimuth scan set has been sweeped, this leads frequency of "go back and check" to be coupled to the azimuth (A1/A3/A6) setting. Note: these strange behaviours (all of them) wasn't there on the first implementations of RWS/SAM/DTT. It worked very well in the past, and the intervals seemed to be more consistent and DTT was more efficient. Something in the last 6 months happened and messed this up. F-16_absolute axis_SAM_recenters.trk F-16_absolute axis_SAM_not_recenters.trk Edited June 26, 2023 by falconzx 2 1
Rongor Posted June 30, 2023 Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) I also set up a test mission and can provide two very short tracks. Bottom line: If there is more than a single target (2 in my mission) on CRM-RWS, the antenna does begin to jump between two elevation bands the moment I bug any one of these two targets. It does not jump with no bugged target. It also doesn't jump when entering SAM after bugging the only single target on the screen. The moment there is more than one target detected in RWS, the jumping commences, regardless being in SAM or DTT. CRMRWS_singletarget_nojumps.trk CRMRWS_twotargets_antennajumping.trk Edited June 30, 2023 by Rongor 1
GlobalAv Posted November 24, 2023 Author Posted November 24, 2023 Hi everyone, I am still experiencing the radar elevation jumping issue with the most recent open beta update (2.9.1.48335), as well as with the most recent stable update. I am curious if anyone who has been experiencing the radar elevation jumping issue has found a solution. I am running a clean version of beta (no mods of any kind) and although I have cleaned up and repaired DCS it hasn't resolved this issue. I would appreciate if anyone who has resolved this issue could post what they did to fix it. Thanks in advance. 1
Hobel Posted November 24, 2023 Posted November 24, 2023 vor 4 Stunden schrieb GlobalAv: Hi everyone, I am still experiencing the radar elevation jumping issue with the most recent open beta update (2.9.1.48335), as well as with the most recent stable update. I am curious if anyone who has been experiencing the radar elevation jumping issue has found a solution. I am running a clean version of beta (no mods of any kind) and although I have cleaned up and repaired DCS it hasn't resolved this issue. I would appreciate if anyone who has resolved this issue could post what they did to fix it. Thanks in advance. Track replay pls?
GlobalAv Posted November 24, 2023 Author Posted November 24, 2023 Hi Hobel, I am experiencing exactly what Ronger describes above, if there are two or more targets on RWS and I bug one of them the radar elevation begins to jump in elevation. This has been a consistent problem for me for almost all of 2023 (I did not experience this issue during my first year of ownership). Ronger posted a good track replay in this thread that highlights the problem back on June 30th. I believe this problem is only affecting a segment of individuals with the f16c module and I was hoping one of the users with this issue found a solution that they could share. I appreciate any advice you have regarding this issue, thanks in advance. 1
Hobel Posted November 25, 2023 Posted November 25, 2023 (edited) vor 3 Stunden schrieb GlobalAv: Hi Hobel, I am experiencing exactly what Ronger describes above, if there are two or more targets on RWS and I bug one of them the radar elevation begins to jump in elevation. This has been a consistent problem for me for almost all of 2023 (I did not experience this issue during my first year of ownership). Ronger posted a good track replay in this thread that highlights the problem back on June 30th. I believe this problem is only affecting a segment of individuals with the f16c module and I was hoping one of the users with this issue found a solution that they could share. I appreciate any advice you have regarding this issue, thanks in advance. can you please upload a new track again, there have been several updates in the last weeks and months. I made a video here which I think is what you are describing here. What you see in the video works very much as intended. I Lock on the target and change the radar elevation, the radar now scans the new radar area and jumps again and again to the track, which is part of the cycle as long as the lock is held, hence this jumping. Maybe you could talk about why the short jump is displayed, but in essence it works as it should Am 30.6.2023 um 10:28 schrieb Rongor: I also set up a test mission and can provide two very short tracks. Bottom line: If there is more than a single target (2 in my mission) on CRM-RWS, the antenna does begin to jump between two elevation bands the moment I bug any one of these two targets. It does not jump with no bugged target. It also doesn't jump when entering SAM after bugging the only single target on the screen. The moment there is more than one target detected in RWS, the jumping commences, regardless being in SAM or DTT. CRMRWS_singletarget_nojumps.trk 236.34 kB · 10 Downloads CRMRWS_twotargets_antennajumping.trk 1.03 MB · 10 Downloads so the track seems to be a bit broken, maybe because it's a bit older? but at the beginning of the first track it seems to work as shown in my video. and It is clear that it does not jump in the STT, the radar is only focused on this point Edited November 25, 2023 by Hobel 1
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