DCS tested with the Pimax Crystal

[Nedum]

Thank you for the explanation. I do not have a Pimax Crystal right now, but I am interested in one. That's the reason why I have to ask so many questions.

Even with "MR" I have to put down some of the quality settings in DCS with my G2, and it looks like If I would own a Pimax Crystal I would have to put down much more of those settings. So I ask myself: "Is that perhaps a downgrade (Crystal) if I have to play with all the quality settings down to get a smooth experience, without a feature like "MR"?"

[dureiken]

On 7/22/2023 at 8:42 AM, mbucchia said:

Use the Render Quality slider in Pimax Client, set it to 0.75, it will provide just enough supersampling. You always want the rendering resolution to be a bit higher than the panel resolution.

HI mbucchia, hope you are fine.

I did what you say, still not understand resolution in Pimax XR client:

is that one OK ? have the same on OXRTK in game

I don't understand the resolution because native is 2880x2880 per eye, so 1:1, and its not that at all

 

Have to admit under DCS or FS2020 don't see a huge difference with my old G2 for resolution and reading, but for sweet spot a real improvment.

 

thanks

Edited July 29, 2023 by dureiken

[mbucchia]

1 hour ago, dureiken said:

HI mbucchia, hope you are fine.

I did what you say, still not understand resolution in Pimax XR client:

is that one OK ? have the same on OXRTK in game

I don't understand the resolution because native is 2880x2880 per eye, so 1:1, and its not that at all

 

Have to admit under DCS or FS2020 don't see a huge difference with my old G2 for resolution and reading, but for sweet spot a real improvment.

 

thanks

 

This is common to every VR headset, render higher than the panel resolution to compensate for the lens barrel distortion. This is because pixels look magnified by the lenses, and therefore you want to render at higher pixel density to counter that and keep the graphics crisp.

Your G2 had the same thing, with 100% being something like 3000x3000, aka 1.4x of the panel's 2160x2160.

The exact factor depends on the optics and should be advised by the vendor. Running Crystal at 1.4x is likely too challenging though, but it's up to you if you can.

[ackattacker]

On 7/29/2023 at 4:07 AM, mbucchia said:

This is common to every VR headset, render higher than the panel resolution to compensate for the lens barrel distortion.

I have always thought, that in a perfect world where more time and money was being thrown into VR development, that a huge performance increase is on the table. Instead of rendering a high-resolution square image and downsampling to apply the barrel distortion profile, the distortion profile should be pre-loaded into the render pipeline so that it is rendered correctly pixel for pixel the first time. This obviously would require much deep integration than what we currently have, because the rendering pipeline is really designed for square monitors. 

[WipeUout]

2 hours ago, ackattacker said:

Instead of rendering a high-resolution square image and downsampling to apply the barrel distortion profile, the distortion profile should be pre-loaded into the render pipeline so that it is rendered correctly pixel for pixel the first time.

My understanding is that the correction for barrel distortion is adapted depending on the lenses, actual panel size and geometry used.  What you state means that the simulation rendering pipeline would need to know the particulars of each HMD in order to apply this transformation.  And also, barrel distortion is more akin to an upscaling operation that rendering an actual image.  If that was the case, you would have about 1/3 of the FPS in VR compared to 2D at thew same resolution, what we have is more between 43% and 47% of the FPS.

[mmike87]

I have a Reverb G2 and was considering the Crystal as an upgrade, but it sounds like - at least for the money - the G2 is still the best game in town. I paid <$400 on Amazon for my new G2, and I am pretty happy with it. Really looking for "better" lenses and a wider FOV, especially horizontal. And, it seems like the Crystal doesn't come with audio, and the DMAS is not available for US customers yet according to their website. The Varjo Aero looks like, but I need inside-out tracking as my space is also my home office workspace (I'm remote) and I don't have room to set up base stations and sensors (in fact, the idea of this seems ridiculous to me, the tracking on my G2 seems to work great).

So, for now I guess I'll just play the G2 and see how the Crystal evolves over time. 

[instigatorxb]

On 8/4/2023 at 7:19 AM, mmike87 said:

I have a Reverb G2 and was considering the Crystal as an upgrade, but it sounds like - at least for the money - the G2 is still the best game in town.....

So, for now I guess I'll just play the G2 and see how the Crystal evolves over time. 

I've been using a G2 in DCS since the G2 came out. Just received my Crystal yesterday. You aren't wrong to wait IMHO. I fired up DCS last night with the Crystal and I wasn't happy with the drop in smoothness (running with a 4090, 7950x).  However, I was VERY impressed with the increased clarity and having that over a wider area. I could glance back at the FA18 left panel and clearly read the OBOGS switch lettering for example (in general, everything is noticeably more clear).

I spent some time last night and this morning tweaking and following posts from mbucchia and others here and on Discord to see what the current state of smoothness settings is. I will try a few tips I've come across over this short period of time and see how that goes. I'll also wait impatiently for the DFR update, and whatever else can improve performance :-).

[UPDATE] After some some tweaking last night, I've been able to get to a happy place with performance/smoothness in DCS. I made several changes at once but it was basically:
- https://community.openmr.com/t/fixing-pimaxs-smoothing-or-lack-therof-motion-compulsive-smoothing/40851/10

Relatedly: motion smoothing is still functional with PimaxXR + Piclient 1.13, except that currently you must have both the “divide frame rate…” (formerly known as compulsive smoothing) toggle on and the “prefere framerate over latency” toggle enabled (as well as motion smoothing in PiPlay set to on).

- And,
pimax_cli.exe -int dbg_asw_enable 1
pimax_cli.exe -int dbg_force_framerate_divide_by 2

Late last night, my gut was telling me I should not have forked out $1600 USD for this and I should have stuck with the G2 to have a good/smooth/fun flying experience until Pimax releases its performance goodness. I still have the G2, but I paid too much for the Crystal to just shelve it. I won't return the Crystal, I'll stick it out based on the positive reviews from the beta testing.

Edited August 5, 2023 by instigatorxb
update on performance gain

[muzica9]

In the end, i have returned the product. Pimax Crystal at this moment is junk. Beside image quality, everything is wrong with this product. And PImax support is non-existent. My advice, if you still wish to try it: Don't buy this directly from Pimax! Buy only from other shops with good return policy!

Edited August 4, 2023 by muzica9

[mmike87]

23 hours ago, instigatorxb said:

I've been using a G2 in DCS since the G2 came out. Just received my Crystal yesterday. You aren't wrong to wait IMHO. I fired up DCS last night with the Crystal and I wasn't happy with the drop in smoothness (running with a 4090, 7950x).  However, I was VERY impressed with the increased clarity and having that over a wider area. I could glance back at the FA18 left panel and clearly read the OBOGS switch lettering for example (in general, everything is noticeably more clear).

I spent some time last night and this morning tweaking and following posts from mbucchia and others here and on Discord to see what the current state of smoothness settings is. I will try a few tips I've come across over this short period of time and see how that goes. I'll also wait impatiently for the DFR update, and whatever else can improve performance :-).

Late last night, my gut was telling me I should not have forked out $1600 USD for this and I should have stuck with the G2 to have a good/smooth/fun flying experience until Pimax releases its performance goodness. I still have the G2, but I paid too much for the Crystal to just shelve it. I won't return the Crystal, I'll stick it out based on the positive reviews from the beta testing.

 

What can be done to improve the performance? To a degree, I'd think the higher resolution would be a constant degrading performance factor. Maybe eye-tracking a foliated rendering will be enough? I started with a 4080 and was never happy with the performance even with the G2 - and sold the 4080 and upgraded to a 4090 once they were widely available again.  Now, I am pretty pleased with the smoothness I see at 150% rendering, no MSAA but still long for a wider FOV - which I assume will always require at some point a higher resolution and thus poorer performance. 

[exil]

On 8/4/2023 at 2:33 PM, instigatorxb said:

 

- And,
pimax_cli.exe -int dbg_asw_enable 1
pimax_cli.exe -int dbg_force_framerate_divide_by 2

 

 

I am also trying to get smart smoothing to work with my crystal. If this does not work, i'll return it. Can you explain where i have to set these two lines? Can't really find anything?
Thanks a lot for letting us know, that it is at least theoretically possible to have some kind of smoothing!

[Merlin_VFA34]

Hello,

Oh where do I start, apart from the fact that I can't seem to get the gaming experience as smooth as the G2, even when using the same resolution as I used on the G2.

After two weeks the tracking stopped working (PC and stand alone) so I contacted the pimax support. In summary, this was the worst support I have ever experienced. The only thing they did is to write "update software and firmware" Stupidly, I called the PI software, PI tool at the very beginning, which led to them thinking that I was using the wrong software. Based on the screenshots, videos and the version number and that everything worked at the beginning, one could have concluded that I had installed the right software. Even after sending screenshots of the "latest software installed" and "latest firmware installed" messages, all I got back as answer was "update firmware and software". When asked which versions I should have installed... no answer... or is there a way to check the cameras or G sensors... no answer. In between, an engineer was mentioned who should take a look at the problem... Ask again for the engineer... no answer. Luckily I bought the headset from unbound xr in the netherlands. They were so nice and immediately did sent me a new headset... what can I say... tested it for a few minutes and after a short time the sound is gone. After restarting service and headset it works again... for a few minutes. So I tried it on another computer... same problem. I then did a performance test between my old computer 7700K, 3080ti and my new 5900X and 4090 and I can't tell the difference. Compared to the G2, this is a more than noticeable difference. I would even say that the old computer runs smoother at full resolution. Then there is this strange image flickering which is difficult to eliminate... In short, it's really hard for me to understand all the hype in the youtube videos. If foveated rendering isn't the total game changer, I can't understand how anyone can be happy with the headset.

Greetings

Merlin

[TheHog107]

Hi Merlin,

Have you tried adjusting your lighting?  I know that Inside/Out tracking can be sensitive to areas that are not well lit.

Good Luck!

 

[dlder]

On 7/7/2023 at 4:18 PM, Callsign.Vega said:

Having to look down in the cockpit so much, the Crystal was just a neck killer. And I already have a worn out neck after a career as a Army helicopter pilot. 

I'm new to VR in DCS too (also the Pimax Crystal) and THAT was also my issue; I wanted it to work like TrackIR.

-> fortunately, that's possible with this awesome tool: [Open]XrNeckSafer

It's an OpenXR tool that needs to be running. Don't worry about all the features; just set the re-center button and use auto-rotation (you have to find the values that you like, just like with TrackIR).

I use smooth rotation, which does feel a bit weird but is imho better then the step-rotation.

[Merlin_VFA34]

3 hours ago, TheHog107 said:

Hi Merlin,

Have you tried adjusting your lighting?  I know that Inside/Out tracking can be sensitive to areas that are not well lit.

Good Luck!

 

Hi,

yes I did. There was no movement at all and the picture was allways turn 90° to the left. This was the case in PC and stand alone Mode. Now I got the new headset and the tracking works but sound isn´t working korrekt. It will simply disapear after a few minutes. Only restarting the service and the device will solve the problem... for a few minutes. I never had this problem with the oder headset. I must say I don´t like the tracking of the pimax very much because making small movements have a strange effekt like moving backwards an forewards instead of up and down ore at one point the picture allways make a litte "jump". This happens allways and it doesn´t depend on where i sit. Its not a big problem but when sitting still this feels strange.

Greetings

Merlin

[Merlin_VFA34]

Hi,

also a problem of the second headset seems to be a misalinement of the two lenses and the picture looks blury in the middle and sharp at the edges (I have decreased the render frame of both eyes in the xr toolkit so it got more obvious). I have tryed to aligne the pictures via the sliders in the pie software but that does not give me the same crip picture of the first headset. Are there any good tools that can help to align both eyes?

Greetings

Merlin

[winghunter]

 

[dburne]

He is praising the automatic eye tracking and foveated rendering of the Crystal - which is one of the many features that has not yet been enabled for the retail product. So I stopped watching. Typical Pimax style of publicity.

Edited August 26, 2023 by dburne

[MBot]

What is your experience with the battery life? Today I had both batteries, initially fully charged, drain in about 2-3 hours of playing DCS, with my own powered USB hub connected (the Pimax supplied USB hub had terrible connection problems). This is awfully short and you cannot hot swap either without crashing DCS.

[winghunter]

10 hours ago, MBot said:

What is your experience with the battery life? Today I had both batteries, initially fully charged, drain in about 2-3 hours of playing DCS, with my own powered USB hub connected (the Pimax supplied USB hub had terrible connection problems). This is awfully short and you cannot hot swap either without crashing DCS.

 

[winghunter]

Good overview of the typical Pimax issues you will encounter with this headset

[jaapgrolleman]

The latest Crystal review, from Grim Reapers

 

[dburne]

Another "free of charge" headset review praising the eye tracking, which coincidentally is not available yet in release version. 

That's all I needed to see. Basically just a features read off list with praises.

[MAXsenna]

Another "free of charge" headset review praising the eye tracking, which coincidentally is not available yet in release version. 
That's all I needed to see. Basically just a features read off list with praises.

Look at the brightside. You have no regrets with your purchase, right?

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[dburne]

2 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Look at the brightside. You have no regrets with your purchase, right?

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

[Badshot]

I really don’t understand all the hate on this post.  I’ve had a g2 running DCS at 90fps under most circumstances with 13900k and 4090.   I now have the crystal and running exact same settings at balanced setting in pimax at 120 hz and I’m getting 115-120 fps with amazing image quality.  Also maybe sure you download quad view. https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated