reported Multithreading: Flipping between F10 and F1 Causing intense, and lasting screen-tearing in VR

[BIGNEWY]

Ideally we would want DCS to be vanilla no unofficial mods or edits, and yes tracks and logs help. 

I have asked the team to take a look, I am unable to reproduce on my machine however. 

[BIGNEWY]

Thinking out loud here, it could be ASW stopping when switching between F10 but again, we are unable to reproduce currently. 

 

[prianik]

2 часа назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

I have asked the team to take a look, I am unable to reproduce on my machine however. 

you can't reproduce for one simple reason, you have 24GB of memory. 
The problem occurs on video cards 3080, 4070 and so on. Anything with less than 16GB of memory. 
Take 3080 and the problem will be reproduced instantly. And I ask you to solve this problem as soon as possible. 
People can't play DCS. And if people can't play then they won't pay you

Edited August 8, 2023 by prianik

[BIGNEWY]

A team memeber has checked with a 2080Ti, 11 Gb VRAM and unable to reproduce. 

I will ask more team members to check also.

How many of you are using third party VR tools or edits? I wonder if some obscure setting change is having an effect?

[prianik]

15 минут назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

How many of you are using third party VR tools or edits

Personally, I do not use any third-party tools at all, as well as no mods. DCS is absolutely clean, only officially released and purchased modules. Such a feeling that the memory is simply clogged. The frame rendering time increases from the normal 10-12 milliseconds to 60-70 and because of this the FPS drops from 50-60 to 10. If you need to send or do something, tell me how and I will reproduce this problem

[BIGNEWY]

3 minutes ago, prianik said:

Personally, I do not use any third-party tools at all, as well as no mods. DCS is absolutely clean, only officially released and purchased modules. Such a feeling that the memory is simply clogged. The frame rendering time increases from the normal 10-12 milliseconds to 60-70 and because of this the FPS drops from 50-60 to 10. If you need to send or do something, tell me how and I will reproduce this problem

If you have not already, reproduce the problem then attach your dcs log, dxdiag, and let us know the VR and NVIDA / AMD settings you are using. 

We will need to try and find the common connection for the people seeing the issue.

thanks

[Moxica]

This "wobly cockpit" syndrome was my biggest problem on my former rig with Oculus Quest 2 and a 2060 nVidia, Intel CPU
I also see this occationally on my new rig (see signature)
Not necessary trigged by F10, but often, and very noticable then.
But on the most complex modules it just there from the beginning. (Rarely in WW II birds)
Sometimes it goes away after a while, other times it occurs at the end of mission, or after a "skirmish".
Strange as it is; it sometimes still there after leaving mission, on the debrief screen, but disappears when going back to main menu.
(I notice when the "moving balls of HP Reverb wobbles)

Edited August 8, 2023 by Moxica

[prianik]

44 минуты назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

dcs log, dxdiag, and let us know the VR and NVIDA / AMD settings you are using. 

nullnull

dcs.log DxDiag.txt

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, prianik said:

nullnull

dcs.log 147.55 kB · 2 downloads DxDiag.txt 109.17 kB · 1 download

thanks, 

Some things I noticed, may be unrelated. 

You have a large page file set but already have a 65GB of RAM, you are ok leaving it on auto to save on space. 

You have your frame rate capped at 45 fps in NVDIA CP, have you tried setting it to match your refresh rate, do you notice any change? 
Power management, you may get better results with it set to maximum performance.

[prianik]

Только что, BIGNEWY сказал:

You have your frame rate capped at 45 fps

if I set the default value, then this problem only gets worse.

[BIGNEWY]

We have been looking at this again, it seems it maybe related to ASW after a long lag happens, and ASW has trouble recovering from it. 

Quest users see it for example and have to disable the PC link. https://communityforums.atmeta.com/t5/Get-Help/Quest-2-oculus-link-screen-tearing/td-p/970288

If you are using ASW or motion reprojection try to disable and see if you notice a difference. 

thanks

[prianik]

@BIGNEWYwhere should i click?

Edited August 9, 2023 by prianik

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, prianik said:

@BIGNEWYwhere should i click?

 

Your settings look fine, we do not see anything unusual. 

However trying to disable ASW is only a suggestion you may find it does not help. 

It would be interesting for quest users to say if they see the issue with cable link, air link or virtual desktop. 

Current thoughts are after ASW auto-disables due to strong performance drop, it can't be restored without disabling PC link and enabling it again.

thanks

 

[Mr_sukebe]

One thing to try, is complete removal of Tacview.

I had a massive frame rate drop I game having joined someone else’s multiplayer server.  In the DCS log, there were a number of references to Tacview, despite it being disabled.  I’ve now completely removed Tacview, ie all of the files and hooks and that seems to have solved my issue

[Recluse]

It clearly doesn't work for everyone, but for me, turning off MSAA in the options fixed the problem about 90%. Happens occasionally still but seems less correlated to F10/F1 switching and more random.

QUEST 2 user here.  I use OpenXR toolkit as well.  Typically I connect via AIRLINK with the LINK cable connected for power, but I have also just used the LINK Cable.  No apparent difference on the issue (before turning MSAA off.

- I have had ASW set to NO for a long time, and I still saw the problem with MSAA on.

 

[Maverick_NL]

Same here happend to me yesterday in the apache (f10 / F1. with MSAA Turned off. Alt tab didnt work this time for me.
Connected with link cable.

I also hear a team mate of me what has the rift 2 has simular issues with this. we called it VR lag. 
 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Maverick_NL

[prianik]

In the Russian segment of the forum, I found out that ASW does not turn off even if you have it in the "off" settings. It must be disabled manually every time the game is started. Entering the lobby at the moment when you are in the cockpit, press the key combination CTRL + Num1 (the NUMPAD panel must be enabled) and ASW will turn off. This procedure must be done every time you log into DCS. Yesterday I played like this and for 1.5 hours of the game I did not encounter any problems. Maybe this is her solution.

[Recluse]

4 hours ago, prianik said:

In the Russian segment of the forum, I found out that ASW does not turn off even if you have it in the "off" settings. It must be disabled manually every time the game is started. Entering the lobby at the moment when you are in the cockpit, press the key combination CTRL + Num1 (the NUMPAD panel must be enabled) and ASW will turn off. This procedure must be done every time you log into DCS. Yesterday I played like this and for 1.5 hours of the game I did not encounter any problems. Maybe this is her solution.

I use the Oculus Tray Tool with a Profile for DCS/MT which turns ASW off on every start. I know it is off because I can see the frame rate is not locked to 50% of the Hz setting as it is with ASW. If MSAA is on, I will still get the F10 bug.

[prianik]

Только что, Recluse сказал:

I use the Oculus Tray Tool with a Profile for DCS/MT which turns ASW off on every start. I know it is off because I can see the frame rate is not locked to 50% of the Hz setting as it is with ASW. If MSAA is on, I will still get the F10 bug.

Even if it is indicated in the Oculus Tray Tool that it is turned off, in fact it is not turned off and you need to turn it off as I described above. This is such a mistake of Oculus itself

[MoleUK]

On 8/9/2023 at 2:31 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Your settings look fine, we do not see anything unusual. 

However trying to disable ASW is only a suggestion you may find it does not help. 

It would be interesting for quest users to say if they see the issue with cable link, air link or virtual desktop. 

Current thoughts are after ASW auto-disables due to strong performance drop, it can't be restored without disabling PC link and enabling it again.

thanks

 

There is a very old longstanding issue where ASW could break with DCS that will cause huge fps loss that it can't recover from, unless you send the headset to sleep for 30 seconds at a time to flush the vram allocation. It's always been my understanding that it's a vram problem with DCS not leaving enough free for ASW to function.

The visual "wobble" that many are experiencing does tie in with that. The new menu lag I think might be related there as well, this "wobble" doesn't occur when using VD to stream, and the menu performance issues are much much lesser on VD than on link atm.

Something about ASW is definitely causing even more problems than it used to though imo.

[edmuss]

1 hour ago, MoleUK said:

There is a very old longstanding issue where ASW could break with DCS that will cause huge fps loss that it can't recover from, unless you send the headset to sleep for 30 seconds at a time to flush the vram allocation. It's always been my understanding that it's a vram problem with DCS not leaving enough free for ASW to function.

The visual "wobble" that many are experiencing does tie in with that. The new menu lag I think might be related there as well, this "wobble" doesn't occur when using VD to stream, and the menu performance issues are much much lesser on VD than on link atm.

Something about ASW is definitely causing even more problems than it used to though imo.

Assuming this is the same issue that plagued WMR reprojection then it was fixed by a WMR openxr runtime change that allocated a portion of VRAM solely for reprojection. DCS was being too aggressive with the VRAM allocation and there wasn't enough left over to reproject.

@BIGNEWY if the team are looking into VRAM and reprojection performance loss then this might be worth mentioning. I don't think it was specifically to do with VRAM usage per se, rather the allocation.

[RealDCSpilot]

On 8/8/2023 at 12:07 PM, prianik said:

you can't reproduce for one simple reason, you have 24GB of memory.

Unfortunately i can. This problem is growing since the update with the F-15E. Right now it takes about 50 minutes on a busy server like 4YA, if i'm switching to another aircraft or to the F10 map the FPS drop heavily and never recover. I can also try to force it to happen earlier with switching to the latest SteamVR beta. After 25-30 minutes SteamVR stalls heavily and loses connection to the frame renderer, sometimes it's able to come back, sometimes it never recovers. Somehow DCS seems trigger something unusual after a certain amount of time.

@BIGNEWY This might be connected to the Android VR headset PCVR connection. Most of us with Quest HMDs or Pico 4 use Virtual Desktop for the wireless connection. So if it's not reproducible with "any" HMD, please focus on a testing scenario with SteamVR (running OpenXR), Virtual Desktop and a standalone VR HMD.

Edited August 12, 2023 by RealDCSpilot

[Magic Zach]

On 8/8/2023 at 7:20 PM, BIGNEWY said:

A team memeber has checked with a 2080Ti, 11 Gb VRAM and unable to reproduce. 

I will ask more team members to check also.

How many of you are using third party VR tools or edits? I wonder if some obscure setting change is having an effect?

That 2080TI has 11GB of VRAM that's not an acceptable testing card.  Test it on a 3070 or 3070ti

Only extra VR tool I have is the Oculus Tray Tool.  And perhaps the Oculus software itself if you count that.  I also don't use virtual desktop like the guy above^^

I'm not sure enough people have tested this within ED.  I can't believe it's been unreproducable...because it's clearly very common and it happens in DCS with fair regularity.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Magic Zach

[Default774]

As far as I could see this bug is vram related, It used to happen 100% of the time on my 8GB RTX 2080 if I opened F10 or F2, After upgrading to a 12GB 4070ti it hasnt happened even once. Youre not going to see this happen on a 2080ti with 11Gb of vram.

Valve Index @ 100% SteamVR SS, 32Gb RAM, 5800x3d

[Wizard1393]

I have this issue with my Reverb G2. Reprojection has always been off. Latest DCS, no mods. Specs in my sig.
The same issue sometimes also occur when switching to another aircraft type in the same mission.
Sometimes, ALT-TAB once or a couple of times helps, but not always. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Wizard1393