MT unplayable in VR after switching from Nvidia to AMD GPU

[zulubravo]

Effect that makes it unplayable is both eyes image lagging-shifting
while rotating or moving head.
This sometimes happens without FPS drop on the FSP counter.
Next day I tested it and it looks like there is a large frame drop when simply moving head even in the start screen/menus. 
Image lags in stutter-like manner.(not sure how to describe it correctly)

This is probably not classical stuttering,I think, image does not pause, instead image doubles and goes off center very fast. Well, shifted image might lag, I don't know for sure.

my system:

Mobo: MSI B450 tomahawk max
CPU : Ryzen 3600
RAM : 32GB ram
SSD : 1TB samsung(for DCS)
GPU : Asrock RX6950xt (previous GPU GTX 1080ti)
PSU : 850W gold plus
VR  : HP Reverb G2

things I already tried with no success.
-dcs cleanup
-dcs repair
-removed fxo and metashaders
-Low DCS settigs and lowest pixel density
-reprojection on, locks frames but very low FPS(in ST repojection seems to not work at all)
-reprojection off-effect extremly pronounced but higher FPS 60-90 in DCS initial screen.
-Set headset frequency to 60Hz 
-various Open XR tool settings(prefer framerate over latency on/off, latest preview openXR on/off)
-tried xr companion app-doesnt work(or crash MT),(in ST it doesnt show menu-it doesnt work)
-various "solutions" on DCS forum regarding stuttering in VR.
-AMD SAM on and off(resisable BAR/SmartAccesMemory)
-various AMD Adrenalin software settings, from default to all off or lowest.

things to notice:
-I had no issues like this on Nvidia GTX1080ti, I had really good gains in performance in MT.
(only xr companion app would not work or it would crash DCS MT so I disabled it.)
-Reprojeciton worked on Nvidia ST and MT
-This does not happen in other games I tried(MFS2020, Spaceengine)
-I Instaled  new gpu using DDU(meaning previous drivers are thoroughly removed)
-I instaled new chipset drivers

I did not update bios jet.

 

Video was very hard to record, it was recorded at 60FPS(smartphone camera).

 

[Rapierarch]

Well make a backup copy of DCS open beta folder in your saved games folder and clean everything in that folder. 

Than run repair again with slow and check all files option.  

After that try it again. If the problem is solved you can restore your input settings, and mods if you have. But when adding mods do it one by one to make sure to spot if this is a mod causing it 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Rapierarch
See bold info. Very important mistake from me. Sorry I forgot to say saved games folder.

[KoN]

Are you running VR . And OpenXR. 

I have AMD and have no issues.

Use DDU in safe mode. With computer change to new card . 

Bios 

Turn off SAM . 

Use Auto or Gen3 or Gen4 depending on card.

OpenXR has issues if tubo on or repojustion is on set OpenXR to default clear settings.

Have you tried on flat screen. 2D . 

Edited May 2, 2023 by KoN

[Sr.]

Have you tried clearing the WMR Environment Data?

 

 

 

Also, a good tip before using DDU. Before starting in safe mode to do the install... disable ethernet adapter or just unplug it until completely finished. This will prevent Microshaft from interrupting and installing their "recommended" driver.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Sr.

[Sr.]

You should be golden at 60Hz. Make sure Radeon Chill, Riva Tuner or anything else isn't locking the frame rate.  As suggested above, I would also set the OpenXR toolkit to defaults just to be sure not frame rate or other throttling is happening. You should not need reproject or motion smoothing of any kind at 60Hz.

 

I recently swapped over from a RX 6900XT and had great results with it. Played around with, but in the end didn't use anything the in the Radeon Software, as most doesn't apply to DCS, VR in particular.

 

These are my WMR settings.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Sr.

[zulubravo]

Rapierarch I tried your advice and it did not work. 

KoN ad Sr. I reinstalled drivers again few times using DDU safe mode with network cable unplugged. I cleared enviroment data al least 5 times. It did not work.

KoN I am running VR. I do not play 2D. I tried SAM off again, no luck.

Am I openXR-Not sure what that really means.(how do I find out does it run openXR ot something else. I think openXR is probably default when you start G2 but if steam vr start launching the game in steamVR then it is not openXR it is steamVR i guess.

DCS ST runs on steam VR and DCS MT runs without it. On Nvidia everything is fine. On AMD DCS MT doesnt work well, but other VR games work fine.

Sr. I tried many AMD settings, one by one, on and off. nothing works. openxr toolkit is disabled it doesnt work well with DCS.

 

Thank you for suggestions I hope there will be more.

Currenty I can't play MT version of DCS, only ST.

[Sr.]

4 hours ago, zulubravo said:

Rapierarch I tried your advice and it did not work. 

KoN ad Sr. I reinstalled drivers again few times using DDU safe mode with network cable unplugged. I cleared enviroment data al least 5 times. It did not work.

KoN I am running VR. I do not play 2D. I tried SAM off again, no luck.

Am I openXR-Not sure what that really means.(how do I find out does it run openXR ot something else. I think openXR is probably default when you start G2 but if steam vr start launching the game in steamVR then it is not openXR it is steamVR i guess.

DCS ST runs on steam VR and DCS MT runs without it. On Nvidia everything is fine. On AMD DCS MT doesnt work well, but other VR games work fine.

Sr. I tried many AMD settings, one by one, on and off. nothing works. openxr toolkit is disabled it doesnt work well with DCS.

 

Thank you for suggestions I hope there will be more.

Currenty I can't play MT version of DCS, only ST.

I'm in a similar boat with MT. Everything was fine on my end until the Normandy patch. Now I have to "trick" my setup to run it.

Everything's fine right up until I click to start whichever mission. Progress/loading screen comes up but then just sits there... no progress. After about a minute I can hear my fans spin to idle. But if I play with the sensor on my G2 (between the lens) by just touching it with my fingertip a few times, my fans spin back to life, then the progress bar starts moving, loading game/mission data then proceeds to the next screen.  It's sort of a timing thing, because if I wait too long, then it will simply crash and windows reports it has stopped responding.

 

I even did a complete uninstall/reinstall of DCS and tried with a fresh Saved Games folder.

[KoN]

You need to narrow down your problems please try flat screen and see if your getting same issue.

If card is working in 2D then it's something to do with VR  as per your phone video. 

MT is buggy and OpenXR is too since last patch .

Edited May 4, 2023 by KoN

[Sr.]

55 minutes ago, KoN said:

You need to narrow down your problems please try flat screen and see if your getting same issue.

If card is working in 2D then it's something to do with VR  as per your phone video. 

MT is buggy and OpenXR is too since last patch .

 

I get the same behavior in 2D. Have to wait about 20 seconds of no activity... then a single mouse click jump starts it.

[Qcumber]

15 hours ago, zulubravo said:

Rapierarch I tried your advice and it did not work. 

KoN ad Sr. I reinstalled drivers again few times using DDU safe mode with network cable unplugged. I cleared enviroment data al least 5 times. It did not work.

KoN I am running VR. I do not play 2D. I tried SAM off again, no luck.

Am I openXR-Not sure what that really means.(how do I find out does it run openXR ot something else. I think openXR is probably default when you start G2 but if steam vr start launching the game in steamVR then it is not openXR it is steamVR i guess.

DCS ST runs on steam VR and DCS MT runs without it. On Nvidia everything is fine. On AMD DCS MT doesnt work well, but other VR games work fine.

Sr. I tried many AMD settings, one by one, on and off. nothing works. openxr toolkit is disabled it doesnt work well with DCS.

 

Thank you for suggestions I hope there will be more.

Currenty I can't play MT version of DCS, only ST.

Apologies if you have already tried this but I had this issue until I turned MSAA from off to x2. This has come up in other threads and it looks like it works for quite a few people. Sometimes turning MSAA on and starting a mission, then turning it off for the next mission appears to work too. If x2 does not work try x4. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Qcumber

[Tomcat388th]

I recently upgraded to a 6700xt from a 3060  and you may of already checked this but in the graphics setting make sure you have radeon enhanced Sync  OFF and  Wait for vertical refresh is set to '"Always off(not recommended)"  Not "Off unless application specifies"  I did not realize that there were two OFF options for that tab and had the off unless application specifies checked at first both of my headsets acted like they were always trying to catch up with my head movements reverb g2 and quest2.

The only other options I have on for the radeon settings is 

anti lag on

image sharping enabled  80%

anistotropic filtering enabled  set 16x

texture filter high

J

 

[Falconeer]

I also stepped over from Nvidia (3060) to AMD (RTX7900XT) and i had the problem my Windows kept installing it's own drivers, instead of using the AMD ones, causing al sort of issues

First make sure your Windows updates are not pending (yes, sometimes this is an issue!) and up-to-date. Download the lastest "stable" AMD Adrenline drivers 

Try going to "device manager" and select display adapter, right click and remove device. Then reboot Windows in safe mode and run DDU and make sure to select the option for Windows NOT to install drivers. Seriously just click it, Windows will screw it up!!!! Then reboot and install AMD drivers, but only the recommended stable build. Don't install beta drivers and only install the recommended part and avoid optional stuff. 

 

For VR i would first recommend lower your expectations. VR needs a powerfull system to run decent graphic settings fluently. Setting 1 or 2 settings to high really hurts on average PC 

i would also recommend higher frequency of 90Hz (72Hz minimum) if your setup can handle it and lock FPS to 45fps and play with your ingame settings to keep a constant 45fps (gives much smoother experience)

 

I personally run a Ryzen 7 58003XD and 64Gb RAM and have 90% of settings maxed out and till have occasional stutters   

[zulubravo]

Qcumber:
Thanks for the advice, I tried it and it did not help.
I might try it later again but I will set it in Adrenalin software instead of inside DCS.

Tomcat388th. 
I generally double check everything that has to do with messing with the FPS/Frametime like anti lag,vsync,enhanced sync, radeon chill,radeon boost, wait for Vert.refresh...
I keep thoose things off.I went from  default adrenalin setting to turning them off one by one.
I tried your(radeon enhanced Sync ) advice and it did not solve the issue. But thanks anyway, advices give me hope that it will work in the future-I would really like to get MT performance gains together with performance gains from more powerful GPU.

Falconeer:
 I am currently downloading windows update. I have latest stable AMD drivers.
I will try your trick in removing device from device manager.

My expectations are in right place, I belive. I know that 6950XT is only 2x faster from 1080ti and it is only an improvement in performance and visuals which I eyball to be about 20% improvement for DCS. It is actually very subjective estimation. I know for example that I could run DCS smooth  if I keep same visual settings
as I had with 1080ti but I will have same performance as 1080ti if I increase image quality.

Sr. 
In DCS MT (AMD for me) it feels like something is messing with VR performance in more than one way. Something is choking the frametime and interferes with VR display.(sometimes I see it a lot more in the right eye)

KoN 
Sorry, I did not start 2D tests yet beacuse I belive it has to do only with (VR)+(DCS MT)+(AMD) for now.
because-no problems with 1080ti, no problems with AMD 6950XT in DCS ST, no problems with AMD 6950XT in other VR games.

****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
UPDATE FOR EVERYONE FOLLOWING:

I think there are 2 problems here.

1.Low(er) performance on MT.

    I am 100% sure it happens because I tested ST and MT -same settings same scenario.
    P51 free flight over Poti. 
    In both versions I have 90 FPS all the time with some fluctuation on MT but when I get to Kobuleti
     airport FPS drop to 60FPS only in MT!
    Reprojection is off, DCS settings are the lowest possibile.
    The first problem, low performance on MT did not happen with 1080ti, MT was awesome on 1080ti.(6950xt performs worse that         1080ti in MT)

2. Second problem is what you see in the my video.(Rememer that it also happens with all settings low, pixel density 0.5-(gpu load     71%,Vram load about 33%.cpu load less than 50%(not precise)
    This problem never happened on 1080ti from since I ever played VR. Not in any game, not in DCS ST , not in DCS MT.

Just reminder 6950XT works well in DCS ST. No issues, no unreasonable drop in performance.(only when I crank the settings up which is normal behaviour).

Thanks again everyone!

[Falconeer]

It also might be related to: 

And: 

 

 

Seems there are more problems with MT not utilizing multicore properly

Edited May 4, 2023 by Falconeer

[zulubravo]

I have some news. 
Updated windows. 
Ran both DCS MT and ST same settings same scenario.
Got no FPS drop over Kobuleti. No problems while flying.
p51-freeflight over Poti.
-MT 90FPS (with minor oscilations) also 90FPS over Kobuleti airport (previosuly I had 60 over kobuleti and 90 at the start)
-ST 90FPS(with minor oscilations), almost all the time 80-90FPS
Then I changed only one thing, I turned reprojection ON(use best frames).
-MT horrible performance 18-25 FPS
-ST-reprojection doesn't work still 80-90FPS

Tried MT multiplayer, everything was almost perfect while on server first 35 minutes,
 then it starter twiching/stuttering(dont know how to call it)
Just remeber this is not "stuttering" during FPS drop. 
It happens while having smooth 90FPS.( I looked at FPS counter and 90deg to the left of my direction of flying, it was smooth frames)
I noticed Vram was maxed out at the time of "stuttering". 
I the menus effect is really heavily pronounced. 
Image jumps every time you make small head movements.
I dont know what to think any more.
I will just play ST for now and hope it will fix itself with updates.
I have to try few other things you guys suggested in the next few days.

 

Also thanks Falconeer, I am looking into those posts.

[zulubravo]

I have been playing MT and ST back and forth and I would like to conclude that post title is now wrong.

Both MT and ST are playable but I have issues with MT in the menus mostly. In game effect is now negligible although my DCS play is 90% flying and very little weapon use.

Only problem now is that the menu section of DCS MT is extremely irritating to my brain-eyes because of this weird effect.

MT feels smoother than ST. Msaa seems to be working now. Reprojection still doesnt work in ST...

 

[Flappie]

Check this:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/319255-unusual-graphics-distortion-on-menu-screens/?do=findComment&comment=5154980

[zulubravo]

Problem is still there on DCS 2.9.0.46801 Open Beta. It is very irritating.

MT version now starts by default, too bad ST version doesnt have upscaling enabled.

 

[Zebra1-1]

1 hour ago, zulubravo said:

MT version now starts by default, too bad ST version doesnt have upscaling enabled.

 

As it should. I don't think ST can support upscaling, but that's outside of my expertise. Besides, that's a GPU function, not CPU. 

[Caveman655]

4 hours ago, zulubravo said:

Problem is still there on DCS 2.9.0.46801 Open Beta. It is very irritating.

MT version now starts by default, too bad ST version doesnt have upscaling enabled.

 

 

 

I am having a similar problem and DCS is currently unplayable for me. MT has never worked right I have had this issue since day 1,really hoping to find a fix soon.

[zulubravo]

Try turning off reprojection. In my case reprojection makes it worse because it reprojects at very low FPS even if I have 90 FPS initially. In addition to that UI elements are twitching and stutter very bad even if FPS are high. It feels like frames are periodically lagging on one eye. 

My suggestion:

Turn reprojection off

Lower settings

Monitor FPS to see what FPS you get 

Then again reduce or increase settings to be above your VR headset frequency so you can have smooth frames most of the time

Or...

Switch to ST version with FPS setting above half of the VR headset frequency

Example. I can't get 90fps but I can get 70-80 FPS, then I switch my headset to work at 60 Hz, then I have more than 60 Hz in the background but display stays at 60 Hz, then if frames drop below 60hz turn on reprojection. This is for ST version only. I turn reprojection through steam vr app inside of VR, you can't do in on 2d screen, no option in 2d. I think my open XR tool doesn't work for reprojection yet, so I use steam.

That's what I would do

[Caveman655]

Tried it, no good issue still persists. I really want to get MT to work since aside from the visual problems the game runs so much smoother.